To think this mother needs to sort her issues out?

[FreckledLeopard]

There is a girl in DD's class (they're all in Year 8, so aged 12/13). The girl is in DD's group of friends. She is a sweet girl.

This girl (I will call her Sophie for sake of anonymity) recently turned 13. Aside from taking some cakes into school, she had no party or any kind of celebration as the mother said she couldn't afford to. I should probably add here that the school they all attend is private, so the mother must pay some school fees (though could, of course, have a substantial bursary. I don't know).

The girl lives with her mother and brother. The father (parents are divorced) lives abroad and doesn't seem to see much of his children at all. The brother is 21 and lives at home.

I've met the mother on a couple of occasions and she is odd. Very odd. Very fussy, very nervy, can't make normal chit chat. She is also seemingly obsessively grateful if her daughter is invited to anything (and given the amount that 13 year old girls socialise, it's a bit odd that she's so gushing and grateful anytime her daughter is invited anywhere).

Anyway, DD and her friends thought that as Sophie hadn't had any kind of celebration, they'd arrange a sleepover this half-term, invite Sophie, and make it a little surprise party with cakes and gifts. DD checked that Sophie was free, all the friends have been planning the party (fancy dress, food, attendees, music, presents etc).

Then, DD hears from Sophie (who is very upset) - her mother has said Sophie can't come as Sophie's older brother is out that night and the mother won't stay at her house on her own. She is too scared. Let me point out that they live in suburbia of a normal town (not known for gangs, violence or anything to be scared of). I called the mother (at DD's request) to explain that the girls had organised this surprise party which is why they really wanted Sophie to come. The mother told me she was sorry but was too scared to be at home on her own, so her daughter couldn't come to the party.

Sophie is of course massively upset (she didn't know about the party, but obviously wanted to see her friends). DD is upset. The friends are upset. There are no other dates that can be organised for half term.

Now, I understand people might have anxiety of some kind. But this woman is basically turning her children into her carers. God knows what happens if either the older brother of Sophie want to go to university, or, God forbid, leave home.

I've just had a text from the mother confirming that Sophie can't come. I'm sitting on my hands to stop myself from typing back that she needs to sort out her issues and not make her children suffer as a result.

AIBU in thinking this is massively unfair on the kids and will royally fuck up their lives? I obviously can't do much about it other than fume. But honestly - surely the mother should seek some help rather than making her kids suffer?

is it possible that this mother is one of those toxic parents we read about on "stately homes" thread?

Sophie has been on other sleepovers, so apparently has no bed-wetting problem.

Her friends want to throw her a party. That's a great thing in life. It's not insulting and Sophie was very excited to go. She was allowed to go and all was well until the brother had other plans that would leave the mother alone that night.

It's not easy being a carer for your parent. Like shouldnthavesaid, I think it would help for Sophie to access support.

I agree with what you're saying, but it's not your business.

DS (10yo) has a good friend who is not allowed to go on school residential trips, because his father would worry too much about him, while he was away.

I think this is unfair on the child - the worry is his father's problem, not his. But it's not my business to make a comment on this.

It is hard on Sophie, but what can you do?

I think the OP has has a hard time here. Yes sending a text instructing the woman to 'sort out her issues' would be U, but the OP has already conceded she decided against that and is just venting on here.

We know that Sophie has no issues herself preventing her from attending (bed wetting etc) and it is solely due to the Mother's desire not to be home alone that the child is missing out on an event. I think it is a shame the girl can't go, and the group rallying round is neither patronising, superficial nor distasteful (only on MN ).

I am sympathetic to the myriad reasons why the Mother might feel this way, but as her children grow up, her policy that one or the other of them MUST remain at home with her in the evenings is likely to be detrimental to them all.

Yes I agree with Sainty. I should have added words to the effect of her final paragraph to my comment.

To address the points raised:

• Sophie HAS slept over before;
• I didn't suggest (nor am hosting) the surprise party. DD and her friends came up with the idea, checked to see if Sophie could come (she said she could) and planned it themselves. It has bugger all to do with me. It was only when DD handed me her phone and asked me to explain why sleepover was so important that I spoke to the mum (Dd was already on phone to friend).
• It's none of my business if the child had a party. But from what I can gather, Sophie was upset she hadn't had a celebration which is why her friends organised a mini surprise party (also to be combined with celebrating end of year exams).

Cutefluffybunnes is perhaps putting it better than me. I think it's unfair that this child has to miss out because of her mother's issues (MH or otherwise). Plus I am somewhat flummoxed as to how this girl or her brother are supposed to ever fly the nest.

I am loving all the 'what if's' going on here

What if Sophie's mother is secretly an alien?

What if Sophie's mother is infact her father and ?

What if Sophie's mother is a brunette but would like to be a blond so wants Sophie to help her dye her hair on the party night.

Bloody ridiculous.

tbh it isn't the end of the world - it's just one sleepover. You really should be playing this down to your dd and her friends as just one of those things. We'll do it another time so as to make it easier for Sophie and her mum and help the girls feel less disappointed. You may well be making this into something it isn't. It certainly isnt your business and you should definitely not contact her and put any more pressure on. As for those suggesting OP contacts the school - please get a grip, a child not allowed to come to a sleepover because mum is nervous in house alone is not going to be a cause for concern for the school or for social care or really for anyone. Yes, it's a shame and it wouldn't be something I would do, but it's really not a major problem.

I disagree that it's not a major problem. If the mother can never be home alone at night, then, following that logic, the children can never go away to university or leave home. That's a pretty major issue IMO.

I agree OP. I think it is a major problem if it is a policy she sustains throughout their teenage years. But I also think there's little you can/should do about it yourself. Frustrating.

Sophie is 13. I really don't think you need to be considering what will happen when she is 18 and might wish to go to university. You also do not know anything about the mother's reasons for being nervous alone. FGS Please accept it has nothing to do with you. Why do you think you should know anything about this I can't imagine. Would you be happy with another parent questioning your parenting decisions?

So we are all sure that Sophie is a young carer and her mother has significant MH issues now?

To quote a PP 'only on MN '

That is so shit of her mother. Sorry. It is. I grew up with a mother that had (diagnosed at the time) PTSD and her anxieties were taken out on me. I couldn't go out or invite people over unless I met a weird impossible criteria. Everything had to be perfect when out in public to keep a good appearance, insane perfectionism and control issues. No, Sophie's mom dropped the ball and it's selfish she's making her kids her carers.

She does need to sort her shit. But yelling at her won't help.

I would talk to the school about it. Don't spin it from Sophie wasn't allowed to go to a party. Say you're worried about her mother and how she's coping and that Sophie isn't in a healthy situation. At the very least Sophie could get counseling so that she knows she can leave the nest if she wants, instead of being trapped there by guilt. Please do talk to the school, my cousins were on suicide watch for my aunt, it's a really terrible situation to be in as a child to try and take care of an adult with MH issues.

Anyway, even if you don't do anything, I guess show her some understanding and realize that even if she's getting help, she won't get magically cured right away and that next time she might let Sophie go.

But it really DOES sound like this mother has significant mental health issues. The situation could be incredibly complicated and difficult, and it really isn't worth sticking an oar in for the sake of a kiddie party, which is a pretty trivial thing in the grand scheme of life. To repeat what other posters have said: you have NO idea of the real situation, you don't know whether this mother IS actually working really hard to sort her issues out, and it would be presumptuous to do anything but accept her explanation with grace.

However, OP, I think you should be really proud that your DD is so sweet and lovely that she wants to give a friend a happy day.

No it doesn't.
The OP thinks she is fussy and too grateful
and there has been one incidence of her mother keeping her in because she doesn't want to be alone.

Oh and the lack of birthday parties.

When I was in my teens I remember friends phoning up to go to a particular thing. I knew, from discussion that there was a couple going to that would make it difficult for me (not bullying, just they were very adventurous and I was not, and I found them difficult to deal with in the context of where we were going) and I knew I would find it difficult. But I couldn't work out how to say I didn't want to. So I asked mum.
Dm was in the process of saying she couldn't see why I shouldn't, when I wrote down NO! and she switched very quickly to along the lines of "that night, oh no you can't go round that night

Well I moaned and complained to my friends about how unfair it was... while feeling very relieved.
(and went to the same place with a smaller group of friends a couple of weeks later quite happily)

They may well be much more to it than you think.

I would also say that having a dd age 13yo that none of them seem to do big party celebrations. A sleepover with one friend or similar seems to be typical.

Add to that if I hadn't been able to afford a birthday celebration for my dd, and found that other parents and children were rushing round to organise one for my dd I would feel awkward and upset. I would also then feel I had to do one the next year in case it happened again, even if it meant going without something else. I know it is meant nicely, but that is how I would feel.

I agree with cansu. If Sophie is a young carer or otherwise having a tough time at home then surely the kindest short term solution is to discreetly rearrange the party for a date she can make.

This is a really sad situation for Sophie to be in and it must be a horrible situation for her mum to be in too. She can't want to see her DD upset and disappointed so if she has made the call that Sophie can't go I am sure her fear of being home alone must be significant, or if that is an excuse then the real reason behind saying no must be significant.

It does seem a shame that the older brother isn't able to stay home with his mum on this occasion to let his younger sister go to her birthday party. Perhaps the mum begged him to stay but he refused, at 21 I guess she can't stop him. We just don't know.

Hopefully, whatever the reason behind stopping Sophie from attending the sleepover, the mother will take steps towards resolving the issue and get help if she needs it. I hope your DD, Sophie and friends are able to come up with an alternative date to celebrate.

Why don't you invite her round to yours till 9?

OP so what do you think- that all disabled patents who need supervision should have their children removed??

Lots of DCs are carers.

Lots of DCs live at home until well into adulthood.

Neither of these situations is abusive!

Actually, the OP said that she came over as very anxious and very grateful to be included in social events. That sounds like social anxiety, at the very least - and the not wanting to be left alone sounds like she has a severe abandonment issues.

What if, just surmising for a second, this woman was raped at night and therefore fears being alone? What if she has bad abandonment issues because she was abused as a child? What if she has some kind of OCD or phobia that she is battling? What if she is also in counselling and on medication to 'sort her issues out' but these things take time, and in the meantime, she doesn't want this all over the school?

Not having birthday parties does not constitute abuse (I didn't have them as a kid because my mum had significant MH issues, and I always understood this and accepted it). The girl is allowed out for sleepovers etc. so she is by no means being deprived of all social contact.

The point is that the OP does NOT know the situation and any response along the lines of 'sort your issues out' could potentially be extremely cruel and unfair.

I agree with you, is she going to insist that one of them stays at home until she dies? It's ridiculous for an adult woman to demand her kids be permanently available to babysit her. There's no excuse, her issues are hers to deal with, it's absolutely wrong to force them on her child.

Yeah, don't approach the school with the plain bald facts or anything because that will make you look insane and like you have no life. You should approach them with speculation, gossip and wild surmise. You go girl!

Live with someone with severe MH and get back to me on that.

I meant that don't approach it like you're upset about a party. Let them know that her mother is keeping her child in to sooth her own anxieties and that's not a healthy situation for a kid to be in. Does her mom need understanding? Yes. Excuses for her behavior? No.

If she's in a shit situation where she is truly the carer for someone with MH issues, she needs an intervention. She's a child, she didn't sign up for this. If she was an adult and agreed to be in a relationship with someone like that, that would be a completely different story. She can't even leave if she wants, she can't give her mom an ultimatum to go get therapy or she leaves. She is not qualified, nor does she have the mental maturity to take care of a MH person. Her mother is in an position of authority, and as such Sophie cannot be a crutch for her because her mother will always have it on her terms, which will never be healthy. If Sophie needs to help her mother out, she needs be an equal, not a child. It's too much responsibility for a 13 year old.

The worst that can happen is that SS can check it out, Sophie might get some counseling, and her mother might be given a better help network that she needs.