To think this mother needs to sort her issues out?

[FreckledLeopard]

There is a girl in DD's class (they're all in Year 8, so aged 12/13). The girl is in DD's group of friends. She is a sweet girl.

This girl (I will call her Sophie for sake of anonymity) recently turned 13. Aside from taking some cakes into school, she had no party or any kind of celebration as the mother said she couldn't afford to. I should probably add here that the school they all attend is private, so the mother must pay some school fees (though could, of course, have a substantial bursary. I don't know).

The girl lives with her mother and brother. The father (parents are divorced) lives abroad and doesn't seem to see much of his children at all. The brother is 21 and lives at home.

I've met the mother on a couple of occasions and she is odd. Very odd. Very fussy, very nervy, can't make normal chit chat. She is also seemingly obsessively grateful if her daughter is invited to anything (and given the amount that 13 year old girls socialise, it's a bit odd that she's so gushing and grateful anytime her daughter is invited anywhere).

Anyway, DD and her friends thought that as Sophie hadn't had any kind of celebration, they'd arrange a sleepover this half-term, invite Sophie, and make it a little surprise party with cakes and gifts. DD checked that Sophie was free, all the friends have been planning the party (fancy dress, food, attendees, music, presents etc).

Then, DD hears from Sophie (who is very upset) - her mother has said Sophie can't come as Sophie's older brother is out that night and the mother won't stay at her house on her own. She is too scared. Let me point out that they live in suburbia of a normal town (not known for gangs, violence or anything to be scared of). I called the mother (at DD's request) to explain that the girls had organised this surprise party which is why they really wanted Sophie to come. The mother told me she was sorry but was too scared to be at home on her own, so her daughter couldn't come to the party.

Sophie is of course massively upset (she didn't know about the party, but obviously wanted to see her friends). DD is upset. The friends are upset. There are no other dates that can be organised for half term.

Now, I understand people might have anxiety of some kind. But this woman is basically turning her children into her carers. God knows what happens if either the older brother of Sophie want to go to university, or, God forbid, leave home.

I've just had a text from the mother confirming that Sophie can't come. I'm sitting on my hands to stop myself from typing back that she needs to sort out her issues and not make her children suffer as a result.

AIBU in thinking this is massively unfair on the kids and will royally fuck up their lives? I obviously can't do much about it other than fume. But honestly - surely the mother should seek some help rather than making her kids suffer?

You are right of course

Melted, you do realise NPD is just one disorder, out of hundreds of MH conditions? The same way you can't compare a broken leg to ovarian cancer to cataracts to diabetes. It is a whole world of difference between NPD and depression.

You might think you're on some kind of anti-MH crusade, but you're just wrong.

No, we're on an anti parent-centric crusade.

It is a whole world of difference between NPD and depression.

you do realise that NPD is often comorbid with depression? right?

That NPD is the main underlying issue, and things like depression co-occur alongside the disorder.

That most people diagnosed with NPD also have depression as one of their main symptoms? That the depression can be treated easier than the personality disorder is a given, but it still depression,a nd they still have it.

In most things I have read on the subject, depression is in the top 5 "extra risk factors" associated with NPD. (along with things like alcohol/drug abuse and problems in relationships)

So why do I need to know the difference between just depression, and depression that is a byproduct of something like NPD? Aren't they both equally valid depressions, or is one more valid than the other?

And if you don't mind, instead of a silly, totally meaningless one liner that I am just wrong, would you answer what I asked earlier about how you can say that your father's NPD has nothing to do with the fact he is a bad father. I would say, especially if he is not treating his disorder, that his NPD has everything to do with his bad-parenting. The symptom list for NPD practically ensures poor parenting unless the sufferer puts the work in to combat the disorder.

You people are so quick to say "wrong" or "minimising" or "ignorant", but do nothing whatsoever to back up your own baseless statements. Not a dicky bird. You all just make a lot of noise about other people being wrong, and ignorant and ill formed and stupid, without the slightest effort to put a better case forward. Hell, without an effort to put any case forward except hollering "you're just wrong".

No, we're on an anti parent-centric crusade.

Careful twos

a) that sounds like an opinion:not allowed

b) you've diagnosed depression - what knowledge do you have of the mother?

wow, that ^ really adds to the discussion, how profound and interesting and bursting at the seams with interesting points it is, I love how it counters the points being made, and in such an intelligent manner too.

At least no one (like Melted) will be able to call that little gem a pointless one liner.

There's no need for nastiness, rudeness doesn't help your position. If you have to resort to sarcasm and personal attacks it just highlights how weak and flimsy your arguments are.

I don't think anyone would say a child should suffer if a parent is unable to meet their needs.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what your point is, apart from stigmatising all mental health conditions because of one encounter with one type of disorder.

I once knew someone who was really nasty who wore glasses, therefore anyone with a broken leg, cancer, diabetes or Crohn's disease must also be nasty.

You lack any basic logic, just lots of venom and spite.

roflol. right let me see if I got this.... to accuse me of being on a crusade against mental health patients is an ok thing to say, but I am not allowed to point out that you refuse to answer how you can categorically state that your father who is diagnosed as NPD was just born a bad father, it has nothing to do with his disorder. Now that to me smacks of a lack of compassion and a total lack of knowledge of the disorder!

And I lack logic, righttttt.... and show me one logical point you have put across?

And sorry I got sarcastic, but it's hard not to when the main arguments against you are silly one-liner soundbites with not an ounce of substance to them.

If you have to resort to sarcasm and personal attacks it just highlights how weak and flimsy your arguments are.

I didn't attack you at all, I asked you to elaborate on how you could say NPD had nothing to do with bad parenting in your father. Because I think you are wrong. I asked politely and considerately. Then you came back with, "oh you are just in a crusade against mental health patients"

Get a grip!

(and don't for a minute think I have missed the fact you haven't responded - then again, how could you? There is no nice way to say what you were trying to say, that even though your father is diagnosed with a disorder that would make good parenting very challenging for him, your pov is as good as saying he was born with bad parenting genes, and that is the height of lacking empathy and compassion for a person with a very serious mh disorder)

it just highlights how weak and flimsy your arguments are

Sweetums, my arguments might not be foolproof, they might not be brilliant, they may well be flawed, they sure have space for improvement, but your (and the other silly oneline throwers) don't have any arguments at all. All you do is holler is pointless oneliners of "you're wrong" , "you're minimising mh health issues", "you're ignorant", "you're on a crusade against mh patients". Where I come from that is the epitome of weak arguments.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what your point is, apart from stigmatising all mental health conditions because of one encounter with one type of disorder

where the feck are you getting this from? That my knowledge of MH issues stops at one encounter with one disorder? Where did you get that wrong idea from? Stop making things up. When you provide a list of what you know and how, I'll provide mine. Stop making pointless shite up to muddy the waters because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

you seem hellbent on arguing and picking holes in the slightest thing with anyone who points out anything that is

the veracity with which you present your arguments or opinions and the ferocity towards others who disagree completely undermines any valid arguments or opinion you may have. it is hard to listen when all you can hear this.

This mother obviously has issues. I can't see why the party can't be postponed to another week when the DD can come. And I agree absolutely that this woman probably needs friends and a sympathetic ear rather than hostility.

OP

You need to back off, seriously.

You are so out of order that I can't even find the words. Just stay out of something that is NOTHING to do with you.

you seem hellbent on arguing and picking holes in the slightest thing with anyone who points out anything that is

picking holes in what exactly? profound, well thought out, impeccably presented arguments like "you're just wrong" , "you're minimising mh health issues", "you're ignorant", "you're on a crusade against mh patients", that kind of tripe is hard not to pick holes in.

the veracity with which you present your arguments or opinions and the ferocity towards others who disagree completely undermines any valid arguments or opinion you may have. it is hard to listen when all you can hear this

well I am not nailing you to your keyboard, feel free to tune out whenever you want, (or just stick your fingers in your ears and say "nanner nanner nanner, I can't hear you, nanner nanner nanner").

And I don't give a hoot if you agree with me (In fact I much prefer you and the other one-liner-throwers don't agree with me), all I care about is the other side of the argument, a p.o.v in favour of Sophie has been put forward, and the OP is not getting the bashing she had to endure for page upon page upon page.

You lot keep spouting these silly oneliners like spoiled little girls in a playground when they're not getting their own way, you can expect me to keep pointing out just how stupid they sound.

Try to gather together a half decent argument instead of just slinging personal insults around. Just for a change like!