Yes parents in restaurant, you were VU!

[Bogeyface]

It was not the waitress's fault that she tripped over your daughter who was running around with your son causing havoc, it was not the waitress's fault that your DD got caught on the arm with a fork that fell off the tray of pots she was carrying, it was yours. If you bothered to look after them instead of texting, talking and watching TV on your phones then it wouldnt have happened.

That was why the manager refused to give you a refund on the 5 meals you had, and I agreed with him when he said that a restaurant is not an appropriate place for a child to be running around. I also agreed with him when he said that if you couldnt keep your children under control then you would not be welcome back. So did everyone else, which is why no one jumped to your defence when you said "No one minds do they?" looking at the other diners.

Oh and btw, occasionally jiggling the buggy while you stuff your face is not a recognised way of calming a howling baby. Try feeding the baby before you feed yourselves you selfish bastards.

You ruined our meal out, which is a very rare treat for us these days thanks a fucking bunch for that.

I think you can judge some idiot playing on their phone and ignoring their own children who are behaving in a dangerous manner in a restaurant.

It may be just a snapshot, but it is a snapshot of some bad, ineffective parenting and kids with no idea how to behave.

I am with those who think that Ipads / phones ought not to be dished out as soon as you arrive, but they may come in handy when the conversation has gone on for a while and adults are on the coffee...

I was really hacked off when I went to a family gathering in a pub (25 people) and my boys went to sit with their cousins...(all c8-10). Mine were given phones too within about 5 minutes of arrival and they all sat there being totally uncommunicative. Their mother was sat in the middle, texting away. It later turned out she was having an affair, so I guess texting her new boy friend was probably more important to her than parenting her kids.

OK, I will add "doing nothing to stop their children harming other people or breaking generally accepted rules of behaviour" to my list of things you can judge.

I thought of this thread this morning, sat in the cafe at our local hospital waiting for a bus with dd1,dd2 and ds who is disabled (8,7 and 4). We sat and ate and the girls played the ipad, whilst I helped ds do some drawing, then we swopped around and ds watched a dipdab on silent and the dds did drawing, I took ds for a walk when he was getting restless and the dds helped me tidy up our stuff and entertain ds. Unfortunately ds started getting upset about the fact we couldn't go back in to see the dr, he started screeching so I took him away, and bought him back when he had calmed down.

I thought we did pretty well, especially when an old lady came up and said, ' I was just saying to my friend how beautifully your children behaved....' unfortunately she then added, '....until he started screaming..' then she leant down into ds's face and said, '....you're a naughty little boy aren't you' which made ds scream and hide his face.

I couldn't give a shiny shit what people think of me when my dcs use an ipad as entertainment at the table, but I could do without people wagging their finger at my little boy when he has managed to do something that is a real struggle for him pretty well.

Stupid twatty old lady, Hazey.

Merrymouse - don't you think that letting your child run around in a restaurant, so that they end up tripping a waitress and getting injured, whilst you are engrossed in your phone, counts as poor parenting?

Fanjo - I'm not ignorant on special needs issues. I have a niece with SN and have worked with SN children in the past.

The point I was trying to make (before my post was deleted by the MN police) is that you can never have an honest discussion about badly behaved children on here.

The moment bad behaviour is mentioned, the thread is taken over by people decrying posters as being disablist or special needsist. Any discussion becomes one-way traffic and is therefore a waste of time.

In this particular case the OP herself said that the children involved did not have special needs.

And noone else said they did either until you qaded in with your bitchy and incorrect post lesley.

Waded.

People merely discussed their experience with tutting folk.

And they are allowed. This is their children. Maybe read the campaign. ..
Plus the OP said the kids in OP didnt have SN. How did she know? Some disabilities are invisible.

People should be able to talk sbout their kids without people like you wading in accusing them of all sorts.

I have been in restaurants with very badly behaved children who definitely did not have SN - I know this because I live in a small place where everyone knows everyone else.

Fine. Well then they should behave.

People can say that.

And people can also share their experiences if they have been a child with sN.

It's not one or the other.

If they have a child with SN obviously.

My phone inserts words.

Am not drinking. .yet.

In answer to the question of how children are going to learn to eat with consideration for others in a restaurant if they never go to a restaurant, I think children learn to behave in restaurants if meals at home are eaten with a bit of decorum and expectations of table manners are spelled out and enforced at home, day in and day out.

A child's first experience of being considerate and living up to expectations at mealtime shouldn't be in a restaurant.

The difference is Worra, children are taught to eat at a table behave appropriately, and not get up and run around mid meal, normally.

It's the parents who are being judged on here, isn't it? They ignored their child, let her get into danger, and let her pose a danger to others, and then when she was hurt because a waitress tripped over her, they didn't acknowledge their behaviour had led to the accident, but instead they tried to get something for nothing.

That's not good parenting regardless of whether a child has special needs or not, isn't it?

I wouldn't judge the child in these circumstances, but I sure as hell would judge parents who ignored their child, did nothing to keep her out from under the feet of the wait staff and then thought they were entitled to kick off when an accident happened and their child got hurt.

I have a friend who has very bad MS. He has a urine bag, visible, and chokes frequently while feeding. It can actually be really frightening, so we make sure when we take him out that it's not a kiddy place, not a posh place- usually the local cafe where he says he feels more comfortable either. The reason kids behave badly in post restaurants is possibly because they get bored, waiting, and listening to,adult chat.

I also object as if I've saved up £150 for an anniversary meal, and MY children were being babysat, to others bringing theirs and letting them run free. It's NOT a soft play, it's a restaurant. I also doubt very much that children with special needs enjoy the lack of stimulation in a quiet, background music type place with nothing to watch, look at, play with.

My DD loves a restaurant and doesnt need to play with anything.

She has severe SN.

Kids with and without SN are all different. And all can be talked about in any discussion in an inclusive society.

Or they should be able to be discussed along with NT kids any time without cries of 'SN brigade" and accusations of guilt tripping.

Methinks I will be saying this til I die

Lesley, what hacked me off about your post was that no one had suggested that the children in the op may have had sn.

Often on threads where people point out that the children may have sn, it is because there is a possibility that in that situation it may be the case. Inevitably then a load of people roll up saying, 'oh no here come the sn brigade/po/professionally offended etc'

With threads like this lots of people come on and give their experiences of why their children behave in restaurants and don't need ipads and the like, so why is it a problem when people come on and say the reasons why it might be more difficult for their children in a restaurant and why an ipad helps?

ShonaJay I also doubt very much that children with special needs enjoy the lack of stimulation in a quiet, background music type place with nothing to watch, look at, play with. - that is a massive generalisation about children with sn, who are not one homogenous mass with one personality type! My ds for one would much prefer a quiet restaurant without too much stimulation, than a noisy one with lots of toys etc.

SDTG has it in a nutshell. The behaviour of the child concerned wasn't just a bit annoying (like DS1 exclaiming "Mr Rude!" everytime the particularly farty sounding chair that he sat on to eat breakfast in a B&B, the other day, creaked ) it was downright dangerous and the parents were making no effort at all to contain the behaviour.

I think children learn to behave in restaurants if meals at home are eaten with a bit of decorum and expectations of table manners are spelled out and enforced at home, day in and day out.

Not necessarily true. When my DCs are eating at home, things are set up specifically so that DS1 can cope with the food, the noise, the seating, the temperature of the food, and so on.

When DS1 gets into a restaurant, the situation is entirely different:

• the chair is different, so there's sensory problems
• the table is different, so he's not always sure where everything goes
• there are often different things on the table - placards and such - which are distracting
• the cutlery is different, and sometimes uncomfortable for him to hold
• the plates are different, sometimes quite hot
• the glasses are shaped differently so he is unsure how to hold them easily (especially the tall thinner ones) and is more likely to knock them over
• the food is different - different seasonings, different cooking styles, food touching on the plate, temperature of the food is sometimes quite hot which he struggles with
• the noise is overwhelming - background music, people chatting, glasses clinking, silverware scraping or clunking on plates
• the lighting is different, which makes everything look awkward and sometimes upsetting

Sensory overload. It's a completely different experience from eating at home. WORLDS apart. And nothing at home can really truly prepare him for it.

I also doubt very much that children with special needs enjoy the lack of stimulation in a quiet, background music type place with nothing to watch, look at, play with.

LACK of stimulation? See the first part of my post. Trust me, lack of stimulation is not a problem for many children with SNs/disabilities. DS1 uses an ipad (along with ear defenders) to try to shut things out so he can cope.

zzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm not being ridiculous. I happen to work in the local school where we have a confidential list of all pupils' medical issues which obviously includes
SN.

Therefore I do know if children have SN.