Yes parents in restaurant, you were VU!

[Bogeyface]

It was not the waitress's fault that she tripped over your daughter who was running around with your son causing havoc, it was not the waitress's fault that your DD got caught on the arm with a fork that fell off the tray of pots she was carrying, it was yours. If you bothered to look after them instead of texting, talking and watching TV on your phones then it wouldnt have happened.

That was why the manager refused to give you a refund on the 5 meals you had, and I agreed with him when he said that a restaurant is not an appropriate place for a child to be running around. I also agreed with him when he said that if you couldnt keep your children under control then you would not be welcome back. So did everyone else, which is why no one jumped to your defence when you said "No one minds do they?" looking at the other diners.

Oh and btw, occasionally jiggling the buggy while you stuff your face is not a recognised way of calming a howling baby. Try feeding the baby before you feed yourselves you selfish bastards.

You ruined our meal out, which is a very rare treat for us these days thanks a fucking bunch for that.

The bacon sarnie "ruckus" was not people being PO and offended by a bacon sarnie.

It was some people thinking an OP about a neighbour finding bacon offensive and ordering her the moment he moved in not to cook it and saying "what next" had the whiff of UKIP stirring about it.

And others disagreeing. And being pretty bitchy about it too.

And continuing the digs on other threads like this one. Which is nice.

But then we must remember that some kids are incapable of walking around a supermarket without having a tantrum because they have allergies.

You know, it's these kind of tiresome throw away comments that are just ridiculously annoying to those of us who DO deal with children who actually ARE incapable of walking around a supermarket without having a meltdown. Thanks so much for bringing it up.

Really, some days it's "damned if you do, and damned if you don't." People bitch about children behaving inappropriately, but then bitch if you hand them an ipad or iPhone to entertain them quietly. Just. Cannot. Win.

Oh, and sorry but I'm not keen on the whole "then just don't go to restaurants" thing. How are children supposed to learn to behave in restaurants if they are not taken into one? Daft. People are daft.

Hmm I had 3 under 15 months which included twin boys.We ate out everywhere including very stuffy restaurants in France.Never once did my dc rampage,make noise or disturb other diners.

We frogmarched,hissed,took strolls outside in between courses,took tiny books and quiet toys.Most importantly we talked to them.Now at 10,10 and 9 they are a pleasure to take out.

When you sign up to parenthood you know it will involve a few years of disturbed meals.Wholly wrong to foist that onto other diners who have paid too.

There is no need to disturb other diners at all or for Ipads(or any other noisy distraction). It's just pure laziness pure and simple.

Re trollies I had to do the shopping alone with 3 toddlers.I used to take the shoes off one and put them in the cart.It was either that or shop elsewhere.Considering I used to spend £200 a week in those days supermarkets didn't seem to give a shit preferring my money.

A positive story here!

Was in Yo Sushi yesterday and was seated next to a child (6 or 7) so was dreading the meal experience but he was so well behaved, chatted to the staff and tried the largest selection of sushi ever. A real credit to his Mum and he engaged with her through the full meal. Fabulous to see and I was happy to be proven wrong! :)

My sister's twin boys 6 are a pleasure to eat with too.

There is no need to disturb other diners at all or for Ipads(or any other noisy distraction). It's just pure laziness pure and simple

I think that's a bit of an assumption that it's "laziness pure and simple." I give my DS an ipad or other distraction at a restaurant or supermarket because otherwise he cannot cope with all the sensory input and stress for him. As a single parent, I still have the need to get out in the world, and that means sometimes my children go with me. And if I never took him out of the house, he would eventually refuse to leave the house. It can be a struggle some days (like today) just to get him dressed so we can go to an appointment later. But needs must.

I get so tired of people being so bloody judgemental.

If you want a truly shocking and hideous eating experience as regards behaviour of other children check out Giraffe on the Southbank.

Omg!

The waitresses literally have to weave round crawling, rampaging children.I've never seen so many shockingly behaved Jocastas and Tarquins under one roof?Even my dc at 8 and 9 were open mouthed.

Bizarrely Las Iguanas near by is completely different, same demographic of customers though.

Alice there will always be exceptions however I have to say I am sick and tired of seeing the ever increasing trend of kids simply handed Ipads or phones whenever there is any waiting time involved anywhere.I think it's tragic as on the whole kids just aren't being taught the art of conversation,to wait or cope for periods of time without instant gratification.

Unfortunately parents like you with a genuine need will get judged unfairly but at the end of the day for the vast maj this kind of thing isn't needed and just doesn't do kids any good.

There were concerns from head teachers re this very issue last week as due to continuously being on screens and needing the instant gratification many kids just can't concentrate in school.

Haggischucker that is lovely to hear :)

I was on a long haul flight with ds1 a few years ago, the man sitting next to us asked to be moved as he didn't want to sit next to a child (he was 6 at time) the flight attend nets moved him next to a family with teenagers. These teenagers were up and down non stop during the flight, talking loudly etc where as my ds1 was impeccable. He watched his film and read throughout the flight. As we left the flight we had two people come over and mention how well behaved he had been throughout :) I subconsciously flicked two fingers to the man who assumed ds1 was going to ill behaved throughout, and he got lumbered with the teenagers :)

Ds1 has always been well behaved while out for meals etc as he has been engaged in chats etc all the way through and we have often had people say how good he has been.

Ds2 is another matter! He has ADD and although can sit for an hour max it is torture for him! At this point the iPad, book or lego man will appear ;) but still he knows he is not to run around and mess about in a restaurant!

Retropear What I would like to see would be people simply not judging and giving the benefit of the doubt when they see a child on an ipad. How would you feel as a parent, when someone tuts and makes a judgement because your child is actually sitting quietly at a table with an ipad, knowing if he didn't have that ipad to occupy him that they would then be tutting and judging because he was noisy and all over the place?

It's very easy for people to say "oh but I didn't mean you because your child has SNs/disabilities" but you only know that because I TOLD you that. If you saw us in a restaurant, you'd not know it. You'd judge.

THAT is what I perceive as a problem. I would LOVE to be able to have my child sit happily at the table with no "distractions" and calmly eat his meal. Some days just getting him to sit at the table and actually get ANY food in him is a triumph. Restaurant food is always a minefield as it's often in an unfamiliar form or arrangement and he really struggles with that. But again, if he's never ever exposed to these experiences, how will he ever learn to cope with them? (then again, he may never cope, and that's another thing we just don't know yet)

With all that going on, the very last thing I need is some smug know-it-all sitting at the next table over, glaring or judging or tutting because their precious perfect children are able to sit quietly and eat. Lucky them.

I'd never tut.You wouldn't even know I was there or what I was thinking.

The fact remains kids are glibly handed IPads and phones at all times unnecessarily these days and it does them no good.It destroys concentration,the ability to amuse,the ability to wait patiently,limits language and the chance to just observe.

Sorry I can't ignored the above and pretend it doesn't concern me,it does.

That said I'd never make somebody feel uncomfortable as on the odd occasion said child could have a genuine need.

And my dc being able to sit nicely and behave isn't down to luck but hard slog.

Believe you me I've had my share of instant frogmarching and rollicking outside in car parks.

YOU might never tut. But I can tell you from bitter experience that loads of other people do. You might be surprised at the number of people that feel it is well within their remit to voice their opinion at my "rubbish" or "lazy" parenting to allow this type of behaviour in public. One would think that the fact that he is in a wheelchair might clue them in that all is not necessarily "typical" in his world, but apparently even that doesn't slow them down. Some have been quite vocal and demanded to know what is wrong with him (in front of him, which then means I have to deal with the fallout later as he struggles to understand the verbal exchange).

Some kids may be handed techie stuff "glibly" (why does that word amuse me so? ), but I try to limit my DCs use of them as much as possible and I try to keep him engaged with other things as well. But sometimes it's necessary. DS already had limited ability to concentrate, to wait patiently and limited language skills LONG before he'd been exposed to very much television or an ipad, so I'm pretty sure that's not the case here.

IMO as you do not see these children all day every day, it's a bit rich to assume that the parents hand out the ipads and iphones to them regularly. Perhaps the only time they get them is as treats during these types of outings. You just don't know. Again, it's just "lazy judgmental thinking" IMO to assume you know it all.

It's been a right hard slog for me too. And mine have been "frogmarched" out and rollicked over their behaviour as well. But honestly with disabilities involved, it doesn't really do the trick much.

And as for those that have told me that they just need a good smack, well, my ex did that - which is why he is the ex now. Physical and verbal abuse don't do the trick either.

So I guess I'm stuck with calm discussion, making what allowances I can, praising the good behaviour and distracting when bad behaviour comes up (like with an ipad). And just ignore the judgey looks and tuts from the next table. pfffffft

Well I'm not other people,that is just rudeness.

I couldn't care what kids do at other times as regards screens.

The fact remains kids not being able to get through a 2 hour restaurant meal, a half hour waiting room wait,a car journey,a family party or even a shopping trip without an Ipad or phone is frankly worrying.

We're all entitled to our own thoughts.

As long as we don't inflict them on others and I don't.

I've never smacked my dc for not sitting nicely in a restaurant- ever.

Do we want a badly behaved adults preventing children from going about their business and enjoying their leisure activities story to balance things out?

Yesterday in the park, there was a large group of adults (there were a couple of kids with them) having a barbecue in the park. They decided to commandeer one of the play structures as their seating area which meant the children couldn't play on it. Some children did try to use it for it's intended purpose but the adults wouldn't move and even got annoyed with them for trying to play of a play structure.

You get selfish arseholes everywhere.

Personally, I see more adults playing with phones in restaurants than children. IMO the reason some children get much more screen time may be that either the parents are also quite attached to their screens (iphones) themselves, or because it then frees up the adult to use their own screens.

If adults want children to be on the screens less, perhaps the adults need to do so as well.

Totally agree.

I don't think it's wrong to have things like books and colouring stuff to distract little children when you go out to eat. It's sensible, and I always used to have something with me like that.
When I was talking about kids being handed i pads at the mere possibility of boredom I was more talking about older children; 5 upwards, and I do think that there need to be times when children can just sit, wait, make conversation, without needing to plug them into something.
Those saying things haven't changed, I think they have changed MASSIVELY. Of course children were naughty in the 80's, and whined and had strops, but we (child of the 80's) just were expected to put up with a small amount of boredom sometimes. When I go out to eat with some friends, and they have brought their 11 year old, I am fine with him playing on his ds when the meal is over, and he is getting bored. Fair dos. But I am NOT fine with him being handed the ds the minute we sit down and then being basically absent and not speaking to anyone for the entire meal.
And I also agree that children learn manners by example.

Alice, the ones I judge (and I do judge) are the parents who are clearly doing bugger all to address their children's behaviour. So I wouldn't judge you. I would most probably see a parent trying her best and have bucketloads of sympathy for you.

I have 2 with autism, one recently diagnosed and with Aspergers and one very severe. Dd has never been a problem in restaurants as she's always been quite placid anyway. I was lucky with ds as he is very motivated by food though so he was fine so long as he was eating. But there was no chance of sitting and chatting after food. It was always a matter of eat and run with him.

I have no problem with screens for kids as long as the sound is off. If it helps them, then fine.

I'm off to Frankie and Benny's later so we shall see whether I can amass any terrible parenting stories from there.

Unless you know a family very well, I don't think you can judge their use of iPads or phones. You certainly can't judge a complete stranger. I think that is one of the main things you learn on MN - unless somebody is actually harming their child you aren't in a position to judge somebody else's' parenting based on a snapshot of their lives.