to think my upstairs neighbours are taking the utter...

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

Forgive me this is going to be epic and humiliating so have name-changed but I need to unload and get it all out in one and it has probably been moaned about loads before.

Moved in here about 15months ago, big old building (so no soundproofing, wooden floors etc), mostly owner occupier and mostly quite elderly so quiet, look after each other and all happy to have a poorly dc to dote on. Travelled a lot last year so wasn't around every weekend and only noticed occasional gatherings upstairs that got a little loud drunk chatty but generally seemed to be not too intrusive or late. Very quiet over summer then a BIG party followed by lots of DIY type noise leading me to think new owners were in and hopefully all would quiet down after the initial housewarming, settling in and then realising that your neighbours can hear EVERYTHING!

Wrong. Every other weekend, friday night preclub party upstairs, first I know is flat filling up with people from 930pm doesn't stop til after 1am. Then back at 4am crashing about, slamming doors etc. This is on top of 4am noisy taxi deliveries to the front door on thur/sat/sun, (thurs is student night here) so 4 nights per week plus the occasional tues or wed thrown in for good measure. New Year's Eve was the tipping point when I was woken at 530am by someone coming back putting on music for half an hour then turning it off (by which point I was up with dc) then once the bells went and my other neighbours came over for a drink and left about 1am, we all went to bed and upstairs party started at 2am and went on until 530am. I was zombie mum on new year's day, and lots of saturdays after.

There was a leak in my ceiling one feb eve so I had opportunity to meet upstairs neighbour, show her my flat, point to teeny tiny dc wheelchair next to front door and heavily hint that we were being very quiet because dc is asleep. Hoped that would do it. Nope, but had contact details now from girl I met who told me she and her flatmates owned the flat, cut to the following weekend and I texted her at 1am to say my 3yo has now been up for 2 hrs so please turn off music thanks. No answer, music went off then back on quieter a little later, until after 3am. Got a message the next day apologising, she wasn't there and would ask flatmates to keep it down in future. I asked her to please come for coffee (so I can have a civil shut it type chat) and gave a couple of different times, no answer, contact stopped.

So next party I called 101, no one showed. Next party I called 101 and really insisted they come over. They did, twice, because party goers smoking outside saw them coming so when upstairs heard my door go they all went really quiet, then cheered once the noise team left (they had heard the party coming up the street anyway so went around the block and then logged it). When the noise team did go up and ask for the party to move on the students refused on account of they were going out in an hour anyway?!? They did go out an hour later (1am) but not before stamping repeatedly on the floor whilst yelling 'fuck you fuck you' all the way around the flat and into the street, really intimidating. And that was that, just advised to keep logging complaints.

The guy in the flat above theirs is the unofficial factor for the stair and called me about some repairs, whilst talking I find he is also bothered by the noise, though not quite as bad, and the rest of the neighbours in the stair are narked by the front door banging and stair noise etc.

Turns out it is a student flat upstairs from me and the flat is owned by the mother of the girl I met not the people living there, we all think maybe 4 or 5 people live there, which is more in one flat than all the other flats put together. There is no landlord listing or HMO license or anything, not familiar with the rules but it seems they consider themselves exempt. So I get the number for the owner but hesitate in calling because I figure it could go either way since I am calling a mother to complain about her child and I am not good at confrontation, hate it.

Following the noise team intervention the students up the ante by stamping, properly slamming their way about at all hours and frequently waking us all up. After a month of thinking I have no choice but to call owner I realise the plaster on my ceilings is cracked, in every single room and so I make the call.

Spoke to father first, who was mortified, then was called back by mother who was very apologetic, this year's lot of students are a lot younger than last year's phd students; any more parties and they are out etc etc. All good, and she is visitng the following week so will come and see the damage. And the only people who live there are her daughter and two others!

Between that conversation and the next, the tone completely changed and I was hearing noise from another flat perhaps, or they were good students who never went out drinking, I must be thinking of someone else !?! Oh and the party the team were called too was just a little dinner party with one or two guests. The factor guy also tried to have a chat with her and got the same line, total denial. Her answer to my cracked ceilings? Oh well I have seen worse !!!

Anyhoo all was good for a couple of weeks after her visit (which was to oversee floor sandings, she refused to consider carpeting, and also swapping a same size bedroom with a sitting room so that their sitting room is not above a bedroom because their bedroom is carpeted so no compromise whatsoever). I was told to contact owner directly and not council noise team in future.

Then last weekend we had a return to evening stampathons resulting in me texting owner at 10pm sun eve to ask that the students please stop banging around because dc was ill from 4th disturbed night in a row. The phone went upstairs immediately and then all quietened down so I went to sleep and was woken later by her ringing me at almost 1am to say she had just received my text and had spoken to the students and woken them up so ~I must be sensitive to noise and hearing it from another flat ! There were no more visitors or music or anything that could be causing a problem and obviously the students were just walking around and being as quiet as they could, blah blah blah. This went on for a bit with her totally trying to gaslight me into thinking I have a crazy imagination, lucky I was tired or the conversation would have ended very abruptly, as it was I just said mhhmm a lot and got off as soon as I could. She did relent and give me their landline to call them if they are being noisy.

Now this evening guests arrived upstairs at 1130pm, waking dc, and left about 1am when I started banging about flushing loo etc really noisily to make them realise we are awake and fuck the actual fuck off which they did eventually in staged groups, thinking they were being sneaky but the drunk high heels on wooden floors and hysterical laughter outside the front door as they scarpered kind of gives the game away, no ?

I considered calling them but figure there is no point, they have no intention of stopping this and anytime I try to communicate the situation just gets worse and I can't be bothered with being woken up repeatedly whilst they try to get even or whatever it is they are doing.

I will move , (I rent and the flat and other neighbours are lovely), but it won't be immediate and I need a short term solution. I am sure owner told me initially they were finished in june and there would be a new tenant but when I last spoke to her that seemed to change to september and I really don't think she can expect us all to put up with this crap until then, also I fucking object to being called a liar, (as does neighbour two up) because owner has to believe what students say and can't we see that ( no I fucking can't they are overgrown nocturnal teenagers with no morals), AIBU?

And congrats if you made it this far , I feel a bit better now I wrote it all down!

I remember reading somewhere story of a tormented neighbour was like you living below vey loud and unreasonable tenant.

One day she had enough. After long night party, she put her music system on. Piled all her audio speakers up on top of cupboards and as high up as she could facing the ceiling. At 8 AM put music on full and went out for a whole day.

Maybe she was lucky but she never had issues with that neighbour again.

I used to live in halls of residence when I was a student and it wasn't anything like this and I am not a heavy sleeper! This sounds absolutely ludicrous. I can't believe the posters that think this student behaviour is okay! I have no advice but plenty of sympathy and hope you get it sorted!

That is what I was trying to say MrsWedge. All noise becomes too much when you have a neighbour like this. If they were lovely and mostly quiet then you wouldn't really notice the taxi in the middle of the night. When you are in this situation and feel under siege in your own home then even the smallest noise will set you on edge.
When we moved to our new house, from a place with noisey neighbours, it took us a long time to realise that the noise our new neighbours made was actually ok and that they were nice enough people. I can hear their tv sometimes but I can cope with that now.
I'm not saying you don't have every right to complain, but make sure you are complaining about noise that is unreasonable.
Getting out of a taxi at 3.30am is not unreasonable. Getting out of a taxi at 3.30am shouting and singing, then slamming doors and carrying on the party is unreasonable.
Walking about in your flat is not unreasonable. Stomping and jumping is.

The mother will have purchased the flat leasehold. There is almost certainbly a clause in there forbidding wooden floors, but how you're going to prove it I don't know.

We don't have leaseholds in Scotland.

Hlidaysarenice

Factors won't install soundproofing. That's up to the owner.

Op you will have to enter into correspondence with LL. And contact university. Don't let them get away with it.

I gave had buggy pissed on, close door smashed, and an attempt to kick in my storm doors. The LL needs to take responsibility fir her tenants

1st step, report the landlord for not being registered.

LL can be fined up to £50,000 for not being registered. It's a criminal offence.

I think they are exempt from registration.

Here are the exemptions from the Shelter Scotland site:

a property in which they themselves live all, or most, of the time, with their tenants
registered care homes
places such as boarding schools and other school accommodation
secure accommodation such as young offenders' institutions
manses, convents and other properties used by religious orders
holiday homes
crofts or farmland subject to an agricultural tenancy, where the agricultural tenant lives on the property
properties where the owner has died within the last six months and the inheritance is still being sorted out
properties that are owned by a person acting as an insolvency practitioner, and the property has been owned by that person for less than six months.

Not sure if "schools" cover university.

Speak to Shelter and they can advise.

Just tried the doorbell and they wouldn't answer although I can hear them. Texted owner to inform her that I had tried to speak to them to ask that they kindly go to the pub to meet their friends instead and no answer, I told her the council is being kept up to date and I will be contacting the uni on monday to see if they will help.

Tempted to turn my phones off now

There are whole, lovely areas of the place I live in where I would never look at a flat because of the student population. Most students do this now and then: you've clearly ended up under party central. The one everyone else wants to go to. One day they will have babies of their own, probably, and may be ashamed of their behaviour.
You'd also think the owner might be a bit concerned about her dd failing her degree!

It should not be too hard to find out what uni the DD attends as there are not too many in Scotland for Medical Students.
Glasgow, Dundee Aberdeen St Andrews are the main ones l think.

this is the kicker, I rented a really big expensive flat in a nice building because I was concerned about dc's health and was assured there was no student flat or HMO, it was all under the radar so muggins here gets first dibs on being bad cop

How many nieghbours are effected? If it's more than a couple then a joint letter to the council and your councillor should work wonders.

The environmental health officer that told you that the traffic noise might make a difference in how they would treat your complaint has a bit of a point but it's not that relevant for the type of noise that you are effected by. It would be more relevant if you were complaining about a constant hum rather than loud bursts of noise. It is all to do with reasonableness - and what you are experiencing is extremely unreasonable.

I would do as others are suggesting and would start logging everything and complaining loudly. Tell the council you are happy to be a witness, provide logs and go to court if need be even if you are not

You can easily record things on your phi one and send clips to the landlord.

They sound like horrible students.

If you can I would try and speak to them. Is there a nieghbour who would go with you? Keep details of the conversation.

You should also send them a letter (registered post) Write it politely and very factually, detail how the noise disturbs you and what you would like them to do. Copy in the LL. Keep copies to show the council/court that you have approached this step by step and to show that you have been reasonable.

Definitely go through the university. Our upstairs neighbours were so bad that the music was bouncing from one side of the terrace to another at 3 in the morning. We contacted the uni who sent someone out to speak to them and told them if it continued they wouldn't be able to use the university as a reference. It really did sort it out and they do take it very seriously.

think you really need to try to seperate the reasonable noises which in my opinion are the taxis, walking up and down the stairs, walking in their apartment and music up to maybe 11ish from the unreasonable behavior which in my opinion would be the jumping and the loud music after 11.

If you choose to live in an apartment you choose to accept people's noises, we live in an old apartment and we can hear huge amounts of our neighbors everyday sounds, we have 2 downstairs neighbors who tend to have regular parties and one who always puts his music on really loud when he gets home from work ( which co-incides almost exactly with ds's bedtime) his music is so loud I can hear the lyrics clearly.

We have just made sure that we are never quiet around ds when he's asleep, we chat at a normal level when wego to bed ( we co-sleep) he naps in cafes or busy busses/trains.

I'm very aware that our neighbours hear ds, our next door neighbours have a child 2 months younger than ds and the poor little chap really struggles in the night times and often screams multiple times a night, we hear him clearly if we are awake. My ds wakes up very early ( has been known to be as early as 4.30 on a couple of occasions zzz) and he isn't the type of child who will sit quietly reading books or watching tv even "quiet" toys like brio and duplo make massive amounts of noise on a wooden floor.

I think there is massive amounts of give and take when living in an apartment, it does sound like you and your dc are possibly too noise sensitive to live in such close proximity to other people.

I have some pretty dodgy mates I'd love to send round there. :o

Anyone with experience of living below party animal students will know what op is talking about.

These old tenements mean you gave to tolerate noise. I can hear my upstairs neighbour put on his TV, play music, row with his girlfriend or tell off the dog. He can hear my three children. It's give and take. We are silent from 7.30pm onwards. Never have parties.

Students will stay up a night playing music, show casual disregard for neighbours, throw up in the close, buzz all the buzzers in the building to gain access, flood the flat below nine times, etc etc

We have lovely students thus year but blimey some of them...you really wonder how they will function without mummy smoothing it all over fir them.

But ikea you are describing normal neighbourly noise (apart from the parties)

OP's example is completely different. These are bastard students.

We were the only students in our tenement block, with elderly people below us. I remember just not playing loud music - ever. I did come back late a lot and tried not to bang the door. They never had cause to complain. I think I was just being a normal human being!

They can't be exempt from landlord registration, neither can they be exempt from HMO if there's more than two living there.

Raise it with the council. They're doing it illegally.

I hope it all gets sorted soon for you. When our neighbour was being noisy I complained to the council. They wrote to him and he's been quite ever since. I think the standard procedure is to threaten court if they don't keep it quiet. Did you fill in an online form, or call the number for the noise team?

Apols. I haven't RTWFT.

Ikea There are several cities in Scotland where flats are the most common type of dwelling, it's really not something you can choose or not choose.
They definitely need an HMO thingy, that might've the easiest route to go down.

I disagree I think coming home in a taxi regardless of the time and frequency is reasonable, walking in your own home without tiptoeing around is normal, music in the evening ( after dc's bedtime but before adult bed time is normal.

My brother went to a Scottish university and he lived in an apartment, the people who lived below were bonkers, I was visiting my db, it was about 7.30, there were 6 students living in the apartment and one student had his girlfriend visiting and I was visiting so 8 people all in all, everyone was creeping around, sushing each other, a couple of people were in the kitchen making dinner, people were doing very ordinary things, watching the news, going to the toilet chatting at a normal level. The downstairs neighbour came up banging on the door screaming about the unreasonable about of noise. I can see why if your neighbours complain about everyday sounds you would just think oh well fuck it, they get annoyed when I walk up the stairs, no way to please them.

Sorry I haven't rtft. Contact the nuisance team at the council for noise monitoring equipment.

Call their out of hours service EVERY time it is noisy.