to think my upstairs neighbours are taking the utter...

[MoanyOldTiredMum]

Forgive me this is going to be epic and humiliating so have name-changed but I need to unload and get it all out in one and it has probably been moaned about loads before.

Moved in here about 15months ago, big old building (so no soundproofing, wooden floors etc), mostly owner occupier and mostly quite elderly so quiet, look after each other and all happy to have a poorly dc to dote on. Travelled a lot last year so wasn't around every weekend and only noticed occasional gatherings upstairs that got a little loud drunk chatty but generally seemed to be not too intrusive or late. Very quiet over summer then a BIG party followed by lots of DIY type noise leading me to think new owners were in and hopefully all would quiet down after the initial housewarming, settling in and then realising that your neighbours can hear EVERYTHING!

Wrong. Every other weekend, friday night preclub party upstairs, first I know is flat filling up with people from 930pm doesn't stop til after 1am. Then back at 4am crashing about, slamming doors etc. This is on top of 4am noisy taxi deliveries to the front door on thur/sat/sun, (thurs is student night here) so 4 nights per week plus the occasional tues or wed thrown in for good measure. New Year's Eve was the tipping point when I was woken at 530am by someone coming back putting on music for half an hour then turning it off (by which point I was up with dc) then once the bells went and my other neighbours came over for a drink and left about 1am, we all went to bed and upstairs party started at 2am and went on until 530am. I was zombie mum on new year's day, and lots of saturdays after.

There was a leak in my ceiling one feb eve so I had opportunity to meet upstairs neighbour, show her my flat, point to teeny tiny dc wheelchair next to front door and heavily hint that we were being very quiet because dc is asleep. Hoped that would do it. Nope, but had contact details now from girl I met who told me she and her flatmates owned the flat, cut to the following weekend and I texted her at 1am to say my 3yo has now been up for 2 hrs so please turn off music thanks. No answer, music went off then back on quieter a little later, until after 3am. Got a message the next day apologising, she wasn't there and would ask flatmates to keep it down in future. I asked her to please come for coffee (so I can have a civil shut it type chat) and gave a couple of different times, no answer, contact stopped.

So next party I called 101, no one showed. Next party I called 101 and really insisted they come over. They did, twice, because party goers smoking outside saw them coming so when upstairs heard my door go they all went really quiet, then cheered once the noise team left (they had heard the party coming up the street anyway so went around the block and then logged it). When the noise team did go up and ask for the party to move on the students refused on account of they were going out in an hour anyway?!? They did go out an hour later (1am) but not before stamping repeatedly on the floor whilst yelling 'fuck you fuck you' all the way around the flat and into the street, really intimidating. And that was that, just advised to keep logging complaints.

The guy in the flat above theirs is the unofficial factor for the stair and called me about some repairs, whilst talking I find he is also bothered by the noise, though not quite as bad, and the rest of the neighbours in the stair are narked by the front door banging and stair noise etc.

Turns out it is a student flat upstairs from me and the flat is owned by the mother of the girl I met not the people living there, we all think maybe 4 or 5 people live there, which is more in one flat than all the other flats put together. There is no landlord listing or HMO license or anything, not familiar with the rules but it seems they consider themselves exempt. So I get the number for the owner but hesitate in calling because I figure it could go either way since I am calling a mother to complain about her child and I am not good at confrontation, hate it.

Following the noise team intervention the students up the ante by stamping, properly slamming their way about at all hours and frequently waking us all up. After a month of thinking I have no choice but to call owner I realise the plaster on my ceilings is cracked, in every single room and so I make the call.

Spoke to father first, who was mortified, then was called back by mother who was very apologetic, this year's lot of students are a lot younger than last year's phd students; any more parties and they are out etc etc. All good, and she is visitng the following week so will come and see the damage. And the only people who live there are her daughter and two others!

Between that conversation and the next, the tone completely changed and I was hearing noise from another flat perhaps, or they were good students who never went out drinking, I must be thinking of someone else !?! Oh and the party the team were called too was just a little dinner party with one or two guests. The factor guy also tried to have a chat with her and got the same line, total denial. Her answer to my cracked ceilings? Oh well I have seen worse !!!

Anyhoo all was good for a couple of weeks after her visit (which was to oversee floor sandings, she refused to consider carpeting, and also swapping a same size bedroom with a sitting room so that their sitting room is not above a bedroom because their bedroom is carpeted so no compromise whatsoever). I was told to contact owner directly and not council noise team in future.

Then last weekend we had a return to evening stampathons resulting in me texting owner at 10pm sun eve to ask that the students please stop banging around because dc was ill from 4th disturbed night in a row. The phone went upstairs immediately and then all quietened down so I went to sleep and was woken later by her ringing me at almost 1am to say she had just received my text and had spoken to the students and woken them up so ~I must be sensitive to noise and hearing it from another flat ! There were no more visitors or music or anything that could be causing a problem and obviously the students were just walking around and being as quiet as they could, blah blah blah. This went on for a bit with her totally trying to gaslight me into thinking I have a crazy imagination, lucky I was tired or the conversation would have ended very abruptly, as it was I just said mhhmm a lot and got off as soon as I could. She did relent and give me their landline to call them if they are being noisy.

Now this evening guests arrived upstairs at 1130pm, waking dc, and left about 1am when I started banging about flushing loo etc really noisily to make them realise we are awake and fuck the actual fuck off which they did eventually in staged groups, thinking they were being sneaky but the drunk high heels on wooden floors and hysterical laughter outside the front door as they scarpered kind of gives the game away, no ?

I considered calling them but figure there is no point, they have no intention of stopping this and anytime I try to communicate the situation just gets worse and I can't be bothered with being woken up repeatedly whilst they try to get even or whatever it is they are doing.

I will move , (I rent and the flat and other neighbours are lovely), but it won't be immediate and I need a short term solution. I am sure owner told me initially they were finished in june and there would be a new tenant but when I last spoke to her that seemed to change to september and I really don't think she can expect us all to put up with this crap until then, also I fucking object to being called a liar, (as does neighbour two up) because owner has to believe what students say and can't we see that ( no I fucking can't they are overgrown nocturnal teenagers with no morals), AIBU?

And congrats if you made it this far , I feel a bit better now I wrote it all down!

My sympathies OP, that is rotten. Is there any way that other neighbours would come together with you on this, it might have more effect than just you trying to fight it alone? Brats, I hope their behaviour comes back to haunt them.
Noise like that is very wearing, and even worse when you have a little one to consider.

Rather than text the owner, why not call them next time and let them hear the noise through your phone.

You have my sympathies- it can be soul-destroying having neighbours like this. I never realised how stressful it could be until it happened to me, and my nightmare neighbour incident happened when I was childless in my 20s. I can't imagine how much more frustrating it must be for you. I hope the situation gets better soon.

I can almost guarantee that a phone call and letter to the Dean of the medical school will be amazingly effective - much much more so than all the other avenues which haven't helped you so far. If at the same time you ring the mother and tell her you are doing it not that you may do it, she should really flip if she has any understanding of what fitness to practice procedures mean. Can't say too much as I work in this area but it is really really serious for the student. Mention also that your dc is disabled - this is not playing the disability card but adds to the seriousness of how this students behaviour is reflecting badly on the reputation of the profession. If you want any further advice or reference to sources to quote in the letter to the Dean, do PM me

Call the uni.

You sound at the end of your tether. Is seems that the flat is totally Unsuitable for student occupancy. And the students are being thoughtless and selfish. Our old student house was in a residential area. It meant we had less freedom to party than our mates in the student ghetto, but it also benefited us in that we weren't woken by thoughtless students! you need to get something done- wringing your hands and wondering if you are being unreasonable won't help. You need to get onto the uni pronto.

The universities are VERY hot on community relations. And they will come down hard on thoughtless and anti social behaviour.
You won't need names of the students. They will be able to find them from address.

You do not need to suffer this crap.

Honestly partly yabu, music yanbu but walking about, the phone ringing, flushing the loo, closing doors...if you can hear all that you need to soundproof your flat.

They won't go to bed at 10pm just like the elderly, and I they can hear your kids cry then that is disturbing them too. Look at soundproofing your flat, learn to live with some noise and report the major things.

Our university wouldn't take it under their notice.

Also would you allow your employer to tell you what to do at night? No you would tell him to f off politely.

Universities educate children, they are not responsible for them 24/7.

The more I read the more angry I become at you. By your own awknowledgement you have just said it is an issue with the building, an that you don't want them moving about, walking on the floors at nearly midnight.

Yabu.

Please stop trying to fuck with a medical students career because you want everyone to behave like the elderly min your building do. Their lives do not stop because you have children.

Instead officking then over, talk to your factor and invest in sound proofing. This will reduce the noise of feet, doors and toilets. Then had a rationale discussion about music, forget mentioning that you don't like that they come home at 1am there is no curfew. You can mention the music at 1 am.

OP, are you in Scotland? You mentioned "factor" in you opening post which is a predominantly scottish term.

I'm not too hit on Scottish tenancy law (quite different to England & Wales) but i understand that a LL must be registered otherwise this is an offence?

You should be able to find this info from the local council and if the LL isn't then report them immediately

Here's a link with some info:

www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/privaterent/landlords

Also, speak to Shelter, they are experts with regards to this kind of stuff and can offer you advice on how to deal with this situation to get it resolved.

Oh and as PPs have said, report them to their university. The university will take it very seriously.

Who gives a shit what degree they're doing? If you can't have respect for the community you are temporarily living in then you don't deserve respect to your current circumstances, medical degree or not!

Wow holidaysarenice, maybe you need one?

I am not trying to 'fuck with' anyone's career. I do think it is good social behaviour to consider those who are a bit frail or unwell and be kind and I think most people do this as a matter of course but it is a habit that in some cases is learned with adulthood. These people have not learned that yet.

This is a very old building in a heritage site, people who live here recognise that and work around the flaws, (soundproofing wouldn't work, carpeting may help but owner has refused that option). The students do not work around the building flaws and so we have a problem.

and yes scotland, no landlord listing.

The walking about noises would clearly not be as much of an issue if the flat wasn't over-occupied. That's another thing.
Holidaysarenice what an unpleasant, unhelpful post.

Agreed backinthering, also there really is a difference between walking and stamping as my cracked ceilings will testify

Do you actually know that this flat is over occupied? Or are you just assuming everyone lives there?

I have no problem with you reporting excessive noise. I had a problem when you blame it on these people when a lot of it is daily noise exacerbated by the building flaws.

I had upstairs neighbours that deliberately jumped up and down, causing the ceiling plaster to crack, because I asked her not to run the machine machine in the middle of the night. Your situation sounds far worse and I really feel for you. Noisy neighbours can wreck your mental health.

Weirdly they do run their washing machine at 11pm etc, but I hardly hear that, probably noisier for the guy upstairs.

My downstairs neighbour politely informed me when I first moved in that on no account was I to have mine on after 10pm because it was above her bedroom and that is when she goes to sleep. Not a problem and have rarely had it run past 8pm, also i tread softly around there if I am up late. As it should be.

Haven't read the whole thread and I suspect someone will have suggested the following in addition to getting back on to council and police non-emergency teams:

Call the owner while it is happening so she can hear it. Ring her on her landline each and every time.

I would also record the noise and make sure you get on to the letting agency.

My flat is in England but here's what I did with a similar problem - AND THEY GOT EVICTED. I don't know if this will help but it might help somone reading.

I was an owner occupier but the flat above was rented out. The tenant was hideous, loud music and the rest, ruined our lives for the six months he lived there. However, I didn't want to be forced to move and so this is what I did:

1. Log everything and email local EH contact weekly. Called her every week to follow up. She actually advised me to go to court. Our noise service only came out at weekends so depends where you are - will they come out week nights too?

2. We owned a share of the freehold of the property. We read the lease with a fine toothed comb. Found that the owner of the flat above didn't have a clause in her lease to allow subletting, that she had to have carpets and underlay but she didn't (dreaded wooden floors) and that there was some obscure language about the landlord being responsible for the behaviour of the tenants.

3. Requested that the managing agent/directors of the the freehold 'enforced the terms of the lease' re the flat above. They had a legal obligation to do so.

4. It tool until the 6 month break clause in the tenant's contract but we got him out.

5. The owner of the flat denied everything, despite us and various other neighbours complaining. She would not see reason and fell out with another neighbour she had known for ten years over it. She would not believe it was happening. I imagine to this day she will swear there was nothing wrong. Except EH don't advise you to go to court lightly and that is what happened.

6. In your case, I would also contact the university and threaten that you'll go to the press. Scum of the earth, terrorising you and your child like that.

Good luck OP.

Just wanted to add that for all the cynics on this thread, it is very hard to understand what it is like to live with constant noise disturbance on this level. You come to dread being at home, every little click makes you jump and you become ill, lose weight, can't concentrate etc due to prolonged sleep disturbance. Many older buildings do have sound proofing flaws, but they are not an excuse for deliberately antisocial behaviour.

As some posters here are doing already, just like the owner of that flat above mine, people start to victim blame as they can't actually process the fact that people will behave in the manner that the OP describes. But some people do. Some people are feral and cannot be reasoned with. Sad but true.

Another really serious issue with over population is fire regs. Each council will have slightly different a rules but depending on the the number if people living in a place there can be incredibly strict penalties for the landlord, including goin to prison if they don't comply! This would only happen in an extreme situation and I assume that the mother would actually do something like kicking out the extra tenants before it got too far, but if you want to make some phone calls to local authorities then the fire officer could be someone with a lot of interest in this.

It really doesn't sound like you are being unreasonable. In fact you have been far too kind. Suit up.

Good point Kick - so another thing so feed back to whoever manages the block. Landlords also have to be quite careful in terms of insurance - surely this will be invalidated if they have extra people living there? I'm a landlord and my insurance company requires the names of the people on the lease/living there. A transient population just wouldn't work.

Another point - is there block building insurance for the whole building? There may well be clauses in that that are being contravened as a result of the high occupancy.

OP, if you are in Edinburgh there is a private tenants association that can help you out here - it costs about £30 to join. If you are in Glasgow/Dundee/Aberdeen it might be worth googling for something similar.

www.edinburghtenants.org.uk/

They will be sitting for exams soon. Find out when, and don't give them any peace or sleep.

The mother will have purchased the flat leasehold. There is almost certainbly a clause in there forbidding wooden floors, but how you're going to prove it I don't know.

OP, I think if you are anything like me you started off quite tolerant and now after all their carry on they can't fart with out you flinching.
I think its a good idea to use a diary, that'll help you sort what's real nuisance noise from what has become unacceptable to you as your tolerance has been worn down.

As far as the damage to your ceiling goes, we had similar problems (although it was with plumbing) with upstairs neighbours. I took legal advice and what I was told was that if they know that they are damaging your property by their actions and aren't taking reasonable steps to prevent the damage then they can be charged with vandalism. We only had to mention this to our neighbour and it stopped.

You have my every sympathy OP, bad neighbours are hellish.