To not want to write a list of chores for dh to do (to want him to just do more and show initiative)

[Frecklefeet]

I am 36 weeks pregnant and for the last few weeks I have asked dh to do more around the house. He is not too bad at doing housework but he tends to leave most to me, which I don't usually mind too much but now I'm feeling more tired and I want him to do more now and keep doing more when the baby comes.

He keeps asking me to write a list and organise the week and the days in regards to what needs doing, which I don't want to do, I just want him to do more and use initiative.

I had a look online for some articles (to email to him to prove I'm right) and they all seemed to support his request - that the woman should write a list of chores for the man etc and I think his is wrong. I am not fussy about how things are done, I just want to live in basic tidy and clean condition and don't want to be snowed under tonnes of washing etc so I want the chores kept on top of.

Fwiw both of us only work part time. He looks after ds some days, although he does work more than me so I do more childcare. Ds does go to nursery part time also. I will probably take 6 months maternity leave and then go back fewer hours than I do at the moment, dh will look after the baby until my hours increase and then the baby will go to nursery also.

So aibu? Should I have to write a list of chores? This feels like a huge chore in itself

I'm committing the mn sin of not having read the whole thread here so don't know if anyone has suggested this.

OP get a pen and paper and write...

1. Look around house and see what needs to be done.
2. Make a list of what needs to be done.
3. Complete tasks on list.

Not in fact, april. And, you know ... I only know what you tell me about your DH.

Sorry op but it all sounds like really really hard work and joyless to me.

I didn't catch why he suffers from
PTSD, my dd was diagnosed with this at 13 following a trauma and she finds some things very difficult. It's a horrible horrible thing to deal with.

I hope your dh is getting all the help and support he needs.

Aw, this is what happens when I MN in the library. I fail to update properly and miss responses like MI's.

Yes we send emails to each other. We even send texts to each other while we are in different rooms of the house. Saves time and it is something we can do in an instant while something is on our mind.

That is interesting princess he does have a lot of issues with hypervigilance and cluttered thinking, maybe he genuinely does not see the mess as much. He used to be very clean and tidy when he lived alone without all the background noise and distractions.

My point Buffy was that if she only had a quick two-way chat to establish ground rules it would be so much quicker and better than telling him to read a 288 page book.
As said upthread it all seems "really really hard work and joyless".

YANBU.
Sadly the truth is that whatever happens from here will be work for you. Society is set up this way.

options:
1 - write the list (then remind him about the list etc). This is work for you.

2 - Get him to write the list, socratically. Sit down and say "what happens in the morning? Breakfast, right. What jobs go with breakfast? Yes, getting it ready and laying the table, but what happens afterwards?" [several hours and many encouraging hints later] "Yes, that's right, also washing up and sweeping crumbs. Now, where do you think the food came from?" etc etc "Right now what. Get dressed? Ok, what in? Clean clothes? How did they get clean? Where did you get them from? How did they get there?" etc. This is boring, and work for you.

1. If either of the above works, and he does do any more, then you now have to manage his resentment about it. This will surface in a variety of interesting and creative ways. You will be busy either placating him or justifying yourself, whichever, or a combination of both. More work for you.

1. Do the work yourself. Work for you.

5 - LTB. this is work for you.

Sorry, OP. this is just why women should not live with men. (Someone forgot to tell me before I got into all this too)

Flipping heck - the OP is 36 weeks pregnant! Giving her a hard time for being difficult or unreasonable is pretty harsh when her ankles are swollen, she's constantly hot, tired and she's getting an overwhelming need just to be cosy and safe in a pleasant environment. Being heavily pregnant in summer sucks.

And anyway, it's bloody annoying to be made to take on the cognitive load of organising someone else's contribution to the housework, even if under better circumstances she might have felt more inclined to do it for him.

I wasn't going to suggest he reads the book, he is not a reader as he takes about a year to finish a book of his own choice! Just the reviews so he can see why in not alone in not wanting to be the household manager I was going to read the book for me.

I think I will mention the idea that the ptsd may play a part in him not noticing the mess. But I still want him to sort out his own lists. I think he should manage that.

Frecklefeet I can't comment on your DH's PTSD and whether that affects the issue, but in our household I am your DH in that I just don't see mess. My DH used to get really annoyed with me and the fact that he did more housework - we both work full time and share the main jobs fairly eg hoovering, cleaning the bathrooms etc, but he undoubtedly does more general wiping down of the kitchen, tidying things away etc because I genuinely don't see it. He used to get annoyed and thought I was just slacking but now he understands and if he wants me to do something he just points it out. For example I never used to notice that the hob needed wiping down after cooking and getting splattered with oil. So he asked me to always wipe down the hob after cooking and now i do, but before he pointed it out I just wouldn't notice! That sounds strange to some people but it's just how I am.

So if I were you I'd just write the list!

Housework is bloody hard work and joyless. Which is why it's nice for other people to do their fair share.

The point about sitting down and coming a plan together as a team (not quite option 2 which still puts woman in role of patronising manager) is that both partners are able to see what needs doing and how each task should be tackled. This should give buy in for both partners and if followed should only need brief ongoing discussions without one person taking full responsibility of household management. It does require taking some action now which is longer than making one list but is a lot better than a lifetime of making someone else's list.

Allhail you're spot on (and that's why I no longer live with a man)

Why doesn't he write a list of jobs he thinks needs done and then he can tick them off or show the OP if he needs the validation.

The pandering to the poor manz annoys me, my DH was a capable adult and run a house before he met me.

Ffs hit enter too soon..

He was a capable adult before he met me, but when I moved in, the blessing of a womb meant I had to take on the housework. Over the years I grew so resentful. He too asked for lists and I refused, he's not stupid and had run a house before, so I held fast. I'm not his mother and I don't have to explain the basics to sharing a home.

"I also think refusing to do anything for him would be a ridiculous overreaction and a quick route to the divorce courts"

inspace - is not washing someone's dirty kecks and dishes grounds for divorce? How sad that you see that as an inherent part of being a wife.

this thread has reassured me that we still need feminism

this This thread is the reason why DS (5) does the washing up every night when it would be easier, tidier and a lot drier to put it in the dishwasher. Because I don't want him growing up like some of the men on this thread.

IME the attitude of most men to domestic work, when living with a female partner can be summarized as 'why have a dog and bark yourself'
If the bloke is determined to feign ineptitude, if he is deeply entrenched with the belief that housework is women's work then I'm not sure there is much you can do to change it.

Lord knows I tried!

Housework is bloody hard work and joyless.

But the comment didn't refer to housework. It referred to OP's refusal to talk to her DH, to engage in discussion. This is her love, her best friend, the father of her DC so why is she resorting to sending snippy emails? I can understand that you might text a specific request like "can you collect DC1 from swimming" but you don't text/email major changes in household rules - that's face-to-face stuff.

I think they see it as a threat to their masculinity and that's why they cling on so tightly

diddl I could write my own list, not realising that I'm supposed to edge the lawn and put rose food on too. Then he would think I was thick/lazy when it just hadn't occurred to me. See what I mean?