AIBU to join Hunt Saboteurs?

[DogCalledRudis]

I already support them.
They put links on my facebook and i really really want to be one of them.

I was trying to put it in context. Obviously the examples I gave were not all linked to hunting but I was trying to illustrate the mentality of these people. Hunts had more of a free rein to do as they pleased back then I guess. It was accepted practice to bag foxes.

I watched the extended trailer too Chelsy. The problem with films is that they can be subject to clever editing for propaganda purposes; things aren't necessarily what they seem. Photos can be Photoshopped so we can't even trust them either. But in addition to what you mentioned I'd also like to add the following to the list of worst things in the film:

A hound being hit by a car after running across the road

Horses being used as weapons against antis/observers/sabs (I found that the most shocking actually), eg rounding them up and trying to run them down even when retreating. Totally unacceptable even if provoked.

A very aggressive male hunt follower shoving his fist right into a female observer's face. He looked like he was a whisker away from punching her. Some of the followers seemed disproportionately aggressive, but I suppose the film makers chose the worst to make a point.

I don't think either good or bad animal care and husbandry is exclusive to hunts and hunting folk. There are, unfortunately, examples of less than savoury practices in show jumping, polo, dressage, farming etc. I suspect hunts are like every other walk of life - the majority of people take care of their animals appropriately, and a minority don't.

^
man I am not basing my opinions on 3rd hand or you tube.
It amazes me, the arrogance of some hunt people.^

So fine, I assume then if you are so confident that the op would witness immeasurable cruelty that you would agree with me that she should got hunting once or twice before she decides whether it really is as bad as all that?
No need to be personal by the way - I think you sabs are crazy loons with nothing better to do but I don't go insulting you. I respect your right to an opinion and to protest (within the law). The problem comes when you lot start harming our animals, causing a public nuisance, assaulting us, damaging our property .... I could go on. It is sad really because I agree with a lot of the more sensible animal rights agenda but the psychos who feel the need to disguise their faces while apparently protesting 'within the law' undermine the whole cause as most of the right thinking general public see them for what they are - nut cases and criminals.

Thats the pot calling the kettle black man.

You started with the insults.

What do you think to seal culls and badger culls since Chelsy has elected not to answer me man ?

No bloodywoman you called me arrogant first I think you will find. Get your facts straight, but that's the whole problem with you lot isn't it. You're all sound bites and prejudice
You still haven't answered my question in my previous post by the way.
I will ask again in the hope you can come up with an intelligent, reasoned answer:
I assume then if you are so confident that the op would witness immeasurable cruelty that you would agree with me that she should got hunting once or twice before she decides whether it really is as bad as all that?

Regarding culls I think that they may be necessary where all other practical measures have failed. Again, if the public were prepared to pay more for their food we wouldn't have the problem as farmers could absorb the losses caused by (say) TB so the cute fluffy badgers could live in peace, the farmer could still make a living and we would all be happy but unfortunately people like you seem to think you should be able to buy half a cow for a tenet!

Can't really comment on seal culls as I have no first hand knowledge or experience of them. I will leave that to people whose opinions on the subject are worth listening to

I think bloodywoman has gone. Challenge them to a fact based, reasoned debate and they've got nowt..... They just high tail it and off they run!

Says it all.

Or she may be doing something else......

Doubtful, she responded to my previous post quick enough, asked a question and then didn't hang around once she had read my reply.
They're all the same.

Now I'm going as I've got to put my well loved and cared for horses to bed.

When you've been on one then come back here and tell me that hunters mistreat their animals or that sabs keep to the law and I will show you a liar

man you started the insults.

I am not a liar.I have seen huntsmen hitting the hounds, and I have seen sabs keep to the law.

Of course a person does not need to participate in a hunt to oppose it any more than I need to participate in slavery to oppose it.

I happen to know some of your dirty little hunting secrets.I know terriermen who have broken the legs of fox and thrown them to the hounds after they have blocked the earths to improve the sport.

I know these things because I associate with huntspeople, followers, terrier men and gamekeepers.Also farmers, guns and beaters.

My eyes are wide open.

Accusations have been levied on this thread that sabs are fixated on the foxhunting issue.Yet the HSA is actively involved with opposing the badger and seal culls.

People like me don't expect to buy half a cow for a tenner.What led you to this assumption on me?

Are you a farmer?Do you live in town or country?Do you keep livestock?

What are your qualifications for slating me?

I'm still here man.

I am a born and bred farmer. I understand way more than you.
I am the custodian of 2000 acres of beautiful countryside with a cornucopia of wildlife. Last year I spent thousands of pounds and countless hours of my time creating new wetlands to nurture a burgeoning population of great crested newts, I have put nest boxes up for barn owls, I have taken dozens of acres of land out of production to help wildlife in the form of new hedgerows and extra wide field margins, I could go on. Why do I do this? BECAUSE I LOVE WILDLIFE AND THE COUNTRYSIDE.

What have you ever done bar donning a balaclava and heading out to your local farm to intimidate people, damage property and break the law?

All of your allegations have precisely ZERO proof to back them up, even your so called eye opening films on YouTube contain NOTHING more than a couple of SABS running a fox over, you run scared from any reasoned debate and I note that you STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY FECKING QUESTION SO I ASK FOR THE THIRD TIME:

If you are so confident that the op would witness immeasurable cruelty on a hunt, would you agree with me that she should go hunting once or twice before she decides whether it really is as bad as all that? Or could it be that you well know that it really is not the house of horrors that you say?

I will read your reply (assuming you have one) in the morning as DW has now gone to sort the horses so I really should go and help!

I thought you had already gone and sorted the horses.

So, you are a farmer? This obviously places you in an ivory tower

It is commendable that you are protecting the environment.Do you receive any subsidies for any if this,I wonder? Extra wide field margins are a great thing, so excellent, well done you.Fantastic that you are looking after the great crested newt, which of course you need to, as they are protected.

I am not a landowner as rights to our green and pleasant land were divided between others long before my birth.I am from a long and hardworking line of country peasants.
That has limited what I can do.

I have never donned a balaclava.

I have never seen the film on you tube.

I have not damaged property, intimidated anyone, nor broken the law, despite my disgust at foxhunting.

I did answer your question.A person does not need to participate in slavery to oppose it, and a person does not need to participate in foxhunting to oppose it.

Perhaps you could answer one of my questions now.

What led you to believe that I expect half a cow for a tenner? Or is this just an offensive remark that you snatched out of the air?

I am a born and bred farmer.I understand way more than you

I rest my case about the arrogance of some hunts people.

Wahey horses done and a reply !
I do not believe that I am in any sort of ivory tower but I de believe that the collective knowledge of the 6 generations of my family who have farmed this land does give my opinion some credibility.

I receive some subsidies but I am still several thousand pounds down after they are taken into account - I look after the countryside because I love it. I am required by law to look after the newts I have but I am actively trying to encourage them to breed by improving their habitat and I hope with the help of a pond ecologist who I am paying out of my own pocket to be able to relocate some of the excess population to other areas to increase their chances of long term survival.

My family were not handed our farm, we purchased a small amount of land 5 generations back where we were formerly tenant farmers and through hard work over successive generations we eventually purchased what we have today.

I am glad you have never donned a balaclava however many sabs wear them to disguise their identities as they know that what they are doing is illegal , we however do not wear them as we are good law abiding citizens.

I am also glad that you finally answered my question in a round about way, however I am a little surprised that you do not agree with my suggestion. The only conclusion I can draw is that you are afraid the op will find that hunting today is a world away from the rather extreme picture you paint. I think it is in rather bad taste to compare fox hunting to slavery - extremist, alarmist, sensationalist, but that's you lot all over as it said before!

Of course I do not literally think you expect half a cow for a tenner and it is natural that people want to pay as little as possible for any form of goods or service but here has to come a point where people realise that if they want the fluffy bunnies to live happily ever after then they must pay a little more for their cereals , if they want the badgers left alone then they must be prepared to pay more for their beef, the same goes for foxes and chickens / lambs. Generally I think people expect too much for too little when it comes to food but that is a conclusion I have arrived at due to my knowledge of the economics of farming today, more education needs to be done I think. I hope you buy all your meat from your local butcher who pays farmers a fair price, or even better direct from the farm. Ditto to all your other vegetables etc.

Now we're getting somewhere, when we get off the issue of foxhunting a bit.

Genuinely, if you are going over and above to help the environment I support you in that.
And, it's good to hear that you have been able to build up from being a tenant farmer to becoming a landowner.

I can assure you that we endeavour to buy locally, even at greater cost.

We, I suspect, will never agree on foxhunting.

I hope though, that you can concede that the picture you paint of all antis being lawless balaclava'd thugs is untrue and unfair.

I think we probably have much in common to be fair, but as you say will never agree on hunting.

I do concede that some antis protest lawfully and though the correct channels officially. This thread however is specifically about' saboteurs' and they are , without exception, lawless thugs who have no idea about foxes, hunting, the countryside or common decency to their fellow man.

They disgust me just as they disgust most right minded people whether they live in town or country. Their actions and propaganda divert attention from very worthy animal rights causes and they should be thoroughly ashamed. They are doing the wider issue of animal rights untold harm to try and score a few political points or worse, just so they can have a scrap.

It has been lovely sparring with you though, I wish you well.

I have now watched the trailer of A Minority Past Time.

Would you do just one thing, and watch it man ?

I don't expect you to say on here whether you have or not obviously, but I don't see what you have to lose.See what it is you see.

I see thugs.The hunting kind.

Keep up the good work with those newts......

Can you say at what point you see the thugs please? I see people driving too fast, people making wild animals their pets and an uninformed anti hunting lady.

That doesn't even deserve an answer Mrsmorton.

If the behaviour demonstrated in that footage is unremarkable and normal in your experience, I feel sorry for you

Go on, do say.