to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

I left my DD in childcare before DH became a childminder. Actually...she still goes to the nursery twice a week so she can interact with children her age (mindees are quite a lot younger)

So we wouldn't criticise someone for using childcare because we've done it ourselves!

My children are not at a nursery, or indeed in any other childcare setting, Born. They are at school and very capable of speaking out when they feel they have been mistreated.

And yes there aren't enough good nurseries it's been widely reported(the gov are having to push back some of their measures because of this).

I suspect the lack of good nurseries is partly due to lack of good staff.

Permanentlyexhausted... I think some of them almost see it as a badge of honour... 'I worked in a shite nursery and was surrounded by bad practice, but hey, it's not my responsibility to do anything about it.'
Oh and of course the parents never know anything about it, because the childcare workers turn on their smiles and look interested the second the parents come through the door, and of course being working parents they can't possibly know their own children very well so don't have that parental intuition which lets you know when your child is secure and thriving. And finally- it's the parents' own fucking fault anyway for having the bloody nerve to not be at home 24/7.

Oh the irony!!!

It's quite sad really, because care of vulnerable people is a serious and worthwhile topic for discussion- what a shame it's hijacked by people who don't really give a damn

I suspect the lack of good nurseries is partly due to lack of good staff

Yes and also mostly to do with the fact its a business, run to be a money making business.

As with all these things people take the piss, its up the watch dog to keep breathing down their necks, being a pain, encouraging speaking out...transparency and keeping them on their toes.

I dont think any of the watch dogs in all care settings do this.

panorama does!

BTW Where is OP???

I think some people on here very much do give a damn and want to tell people about it, some people simply do not want to hear it.

it is also a personal call, as you can see on here, many parents are fine with their children not being interacted with. it breaks my heart sometimes. but i wouldnt report it as it is, imo, just poor not actively abusive behaviour. it certainly isnt what i would choose for my child but it doesnt break rules

the good nurseries i have seen really did have an excellent ethos that was believed in, and strong management (ex teachers, if relevant). they paid the same but it was a real team. small not a chain, maybe that makes it easier too?

You are absolutely right, Janey.

People witness this mistreatment/neglect and instead of blaming the perpetrators, they try and score points off working parents.

Bornfree- I am quite prepared to hear people saying that they have sadly experienced bad settings with their own children, or that sadly they can't use childcare because they have no access to quality provision. That's a real problem for some families and there ought to be better provision for all

It's when people are more concerned with preaching about all the terrible experiences which other people's children are having that one can't help feeling a bit suspicious of some people's motives.

Clearly a few posters think that not only do they know their own children best, but they also have expert knowledge and insight into other people's children too!!

i suppose, as a parenting website, it is natural to focus on the childcare part, but what goes on in some care homes is far far far far far worse.

even on here, noone seems to want to talk about it, its all 'ooh they use cheap baby wipes on my childs bum' shock. the elderly fare far worse and their regulator is crap

I was lucky that my sister works in nurseries and so was able to send DS to the nursery she worked at (and sent her children to) and when he had to move nurseries he moved to one she reccomended and knew some staff at so for me it was never properly "strangers" he was being left with.

I beg your pardon Jas.Old threads and my personal family set up aren't really needed on here.

Yes I had 3 under 15 months(not the normal set up) and yes I was lucky enough to have my dp shooting back for half an hour and my mum for an hour at witching hour when I had a newborn.

As you're so evangelical about nurseries let me just point out that I have an early years degree and have worked in most type of settings.A nursery is the last place I'd leave my children. Nursery wouldn't have benefitted my children,quite the reverse.Care aside I have deep concerns re language opportunities and more importantly all of my 3 would have hated it.As what is best for my dc always comes first I couldn't give a hoot what your definition of "normal" is or how wonderful you think nurseries are.

Retro, if they never went to nursery, how can you know they would have hated it and wouldn't have benefitted?

Genuine question.

I don't talk about care homes Merci because I have no experience of them. I do have experience of childcare. And I do blame the perpetrators of poor care, and those that indirectly cause poor care. I also try to do things to stop it. I contributed to the Nutbrown report that Liz Truss ignored, report illegal stuff, join groups wanting to improve care standards etc. I do what I can while still being employable.

Maybe Mumsnet could be something that helps raise standards too. I think Trussy might have been influenced by us in the past.

And great nurseries are really great.

Maybe Mumsnet could be something that helps raise standards too

YY.

Where is op?

Its people like you tiggy who will help to change it too.

I suspect the secret here is to accept that parents generally do put their children first. Certainly the demographic you're preaching to on MN are likely to be caring, responsible parents.

The very small minority of parents who don't put their child's needs first... Well, childcare setting is likely to be the least of their problems; there will be far bigger fish to fry in a family where the parents aren't meeting their needs

Permanent do you really want an answer or a chance to rip my post to shreds as an example of stamping on working parents and causing upset?

Good for you Tiggy. If more childcare workers behaved in that way, rather than simply making sweeping statements which are bound to make working parents feel criticised, the world would be a better place.

Details aside I know nurseries and I know my children.

If I had needed childcare I'd have used a family member or a childminder.

Retro No, I'm genuinely interested in how you know that. I sometimes wonder whether my children would be different if I was a SAHM. Not that I would change them for the world. I just wonder if their personalities would be different. But I wasn't so I can never know if they would have done (even) better.

Actually, children do need interacting with for 10 hours. They need watching. And teaching. Leaving them to play whilst keeping a watchful eye, helping them share, teaching them how to play small world play and role play and then leaving them to play for a while, showing how to use resources etc. is very different to walking through the door of playgroup and sitting on your arse with a coffee ignoring them for 2 hours while they wander around aimlessly.

But, if your answer involves stamping on working parents then, no, I'm not interested. Because that wouldn't be answering my question.

I used to temp in a range of nurseries in London several years ago and I never witnessed poor care like you described.

There were a couple of lazy nursery workers who avoided work and took lots of toilet breaks and disappeared to 'look for things or do errands' but the actual care with the children was satisfactory to excellent in my opinion.

The only thing I remember being shocked at was the political views of some of the nursery workers. There was a very strange conversation about how prisons should be closed as it was the governments fault that people were imprisoned

It wasn't about them doing better as such but being happy.

I believe a combination of family/childminder and an Outstanding/ Good pre- school is preferable academically re childcare choices but happiness wise my dc were 100% happier at home.I can post why but tbh think it would cause unnecessary upset.

My children(not yours) wanted me,dp and their home.I wanted to be with them and I could.It was a no brainer.