to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

But they are, they are making people aware of what goes on, Pass!

From your posts I would be very wary of approaching you for instance if I felt a nursery or CM you used was in adequate.

TiggyD have you approached Panorma, your MP etc about this, I think if any time now is the right time to approach at least your MP about your whislty blowing and what happened.

Panorama get in undated with all sorts of things every day, they wont suddenly respond to your email and then get you in a program...ie dont be scared! Have a look at their website and fill out form...

Tiggy what you have said does not surprise me.

A big chain nursery I was in yesterday has started using 'blue roll' (large heavy duty undimpled kitchen roll type stuff) to wipe bottoms with at change times as it's cheaper than buying soft cleansing baby wipes. Illegal or just poor?

The nursery I was in today, another major chain, is taking steps to cut back on the frequency of nappy changes in order to save money. Illegal or poor?

I find it quite astounding that nurseries are prepared to provide such poor care when they must make so much money.

as BridgeOfWhys says, there are 2 levels to this

actual abuse - very rare in nurseries, much more so in carehomes.

crap low standard care - but not 'reportable', just crap.

until you have been in a range of nurseries, i dont think you will 'get' how horrible it is to see crap low standard care. it is dispiriting. some of the ones i saw were in v middle class areas where i am sure the parents were paying through the nose. kids were mostly ignored. their basic needs for food, drink and nappy changes were met. the rest of it was just made up (cutesy cards with handprints done in a robotic 'slap paint on, do a few at a time' way).

the contrast with some other nurseries was stark.

for me, it came down to the senior management team. they chose the staff and set the standards.

but what i saw in care homes was far more upsetting. i reported it. the patients were victimised as a result
nothing else happened. it is coming out now, years later

I worked in nurseries, and believe a mixture of nursery and home is significantly better than home as its not normal for one person to provide everything for children in any culture. Its not normal to bring up children predominantly alone imo.

CremeEggs

This is exactly what I'm saying, some people don't want to listen. Theymake their own minds up and don't want others opinions or knowledge.
My other point up thread was that with the best will in the world a 16 -18 year old is not going to find it easyto complain when the reality isn't what they've learned at college.
These are girls who quite often aren't very bright and have been advised to take child care because of this.
The sadest thing I witnessed was an A* pupil take an interest in child care at an open evening to soon be directed to the academic subjects. It isn't just the parents doing this its the tutors too.
Until the childcare workforceis better educated and the brighter dc encouraged to take it, the settings will experience staff with little to offer.

merci I disagree in low level not being reportable.

I would want to know if blue roll was being used etc.

This thread has been a real eye opener.

I think the 'best' comment was the one about 'parents should be fucking ashamed if they let inadequate childcare settings do their job for them'

It speaks volumes. For every decent person out there who wants good provision for all children- and vulnerable adults- whether in the home, or in care settings , there is at least one resentful person who actually can't cope with the fact that most parents work, and don't see parenting as a job. We parent our children- we outsource elements of their care, and we take huge consideration into making our decisions. If our children weren't thriving and happy, we wouldn't be doing it. Apart from anything else, nurseries aren't cheap- they're among the more expensive childcare options so why not save your mock concern for the children in poor households with stressed unemployed parents, or neglectful parents, or ones who leave baby with auntie up the street because they can't afford good childcare?

If people are genuinely concerned about care standards, they'd be campaigning to do something about it. If they feel bitter because they unfortunately had a bad experience with their own children, or because they don't have access to good care, then they'll be on here bitching about parents who are quite happy with their childcare. Or even worse, proudly declaring all the rubbish nurseries they've worked in themselves, and all the bad practice they've witnessed, without the realisation that this shows them to be the last person most of us would want our child to be anywhere near

for me, it came down to the senior management team. they chose the staff and set the standards

Yes and make it a pleasant easy place to work in or not....and one where there is an open atmosphere...

morethan - 1000s of childcare staff have degrees now. I know lots who have one.

What a load of absolute,utter tosh Jas.

?

So only people who are academically gifted can provide good childcare? They are the only people who 'have something to offer'? Really?

What utter tosh!

Janey its not helpful to turn it into a parenting contest.

I would certainly be wanting little things that would have never occurred to me to come out like: nappy changes and the blue paper!
Unless you have worked in a nursery you would never ever know this goes on.

That was to your previous post not the qualifications.

I believe it. I dont think we would have as much pnd, frustration and stress if parents shares the care with friends and family. Im lucky as mine have all gone to nursery so Ive had that as it shares the stress. No other cultures make parents do everything.

Janey - I agree with you 100%

As I said earlier, I would never ever trust my child, or any child, with anyone so neglectful that they wouldn't step in if they saw a child being mistreated. I'm totally gobsmacked that some of them actually think they are responsible and caring enough to criticise anyone who does leave their child in a childcare setting. They clearly cannot see the irony.

If I am paying a CM 50 odd quid a day I expect them to interact their arses off with my child. It's their job and thus nothing like a mum at playgroup with their own child. They are being paid for it and should treat it as such.

But for many children, being interacted with for 10 hours solid isn't the best thing for them or their development. My DH is a childminder and works damned hard, does tonnes of activities with the children, seems to go through more craft materials than an average school...but when he goes to toddler groups (twice a week) then he generally doesn't get heavily involved in "interacting" all the time. Learning to play well with other children in bigger groups is important. The first time a new child goes they always need lots of reassurance and interaction but they gradually develop confidence and don't need this all the time.

Sure, there are probably some who are just lazy. But I would not assume that a lowish level of interaction (assuming adequate supervision!) at a toddler group means the CM is shit.

Most sahps I know send their kids to pre-school and share care by meeting up at toddler groups,meeting up with friends,meeting up at the park,having time with grandparents etc.

...the senior management team. they chose the staff and set the standards.
One of the problems is getting the staff. If you have a full nursery and 3 staff leave, what do you do? Employ 3 good staff? What if there are no good staff who want to work in your nursery? Do you employ temps on twice the money or do you ask some children to leave because you don't have enough staff? No, you do what most nurseries do and lower your standards and employ people who are least worst.

There are not enough great nursery workers for all nurseries to have them.

I was recently sent job details via an agency:
2 years experience needed,
Must have level 3 qualification,
Hard working, dedicated, blah blah etc
We value our staff etc
Excellent rates of pay,
£13,000 per year.

As I said earlier, I would never ever trust my child, or any child, with anyone so neglectful that they wouldn't step in if they saw a child being mistreated

Ok...by that logic, we have people on the thread who are saying they have seen more....low level mistreatment, and they have not spoken out about it.

So how on earth do you know the person you do hand your dc over too isn't also seeing the same, and isn't speaking out about it?

rather than being nasty to people on here , I would casually asking about stuff at my childs nursery tomorrow!

StatisticallyChallenged - agreed! I would go as far as to suggest that children should definitely not be interacted with for 10 solid hours and that anyone who does this is doing their children a disservice. It is very important that they learn how to spend time on their own, entertaining themselves, and that this should start as early as possible.

Didnt you say you had three close together and got your dh back for lunch as you found it stressful? You wouldnt of had that with a culture that helped and in our culture we are lucky we have nurseries to help us and take the stress off. I think nurseries are fantastic kept me having plenty of sleep and very little stress, with carers who are there for life. I think there is some fantastic childcare in the uk

I don't think anyone who works in childcare would criticise someone for leaving their child in childcare. If you didn't leave them in childcare we'd all lose our jobs!

Think it through.

I don't think anyone who works in childcare would criticise someone for leaving their child in childcare. If you didn't leave them in childcare we'd all lose our jobs!

Think it through.