to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

The nursery DS went to had CCTV which fed into the managers officer and the office at "hq" (it was a small chain) so parents didn't see anything but everything was being recorded

There have been instances of parents ringing up nurseries to 'report' a child who is, in their opinion, behaving badly. Would you be happy if that were your child?

I agree with some other points re camers and giving false sense of security but on this point, with a camera there....one would clearly see what was going on, if a parent tackled me, we could watch the video and discuss it.

If my child was causing such consternation yes I would want to be told!

I'd prefer to trust the professionals to deal with any minor incidents and only tell me of incidents they deemed serious.

I would not be happy to have every little misdemeanour relayed to me by the class busybody! Still less to have them discussed among other parents and my child labelled as the 'naughty' one.

Yes but Tanith

If the class busy body called your attention to an incident. you can both see it cant you. you can say to the class busy body, what are you going on about....that was an accidental push and you can see from the footage there was no other incident that day ( lets say bullying is in question) so you can use the footage to immediately close down the class busy body and have back up from staff who can also see footage...

In terms of a class busy body, I would welcome actual video evidence showing - un equivocally no wrong doing.

Then again, if the class busybody didn't have access in the first place, the question wouldn't arise.

Tanith, being hassled by the class busy body is not something that would occur to me.

And not every class has a class busy body.

There are nurseries where some cameras exist. If my dc was at such a nursery and all was fine, a new parent coming along and saying, I like the nursery but could we do away with the camera please IN CASE some class busy body wants to suddenly start saying my DC are the naughty ones...

They would be laughed at! And I would imagine throw up some suspicion that perhaps their child was a little bit naughty..

Its a non issue.

Clearly not a non issue to parents who have reported this problem.

And that's just one of the issues I raised. My point is that CCTV is certainly not the protection that is being promoted on this thread. It comes with its own concerns.

Wynkenblynken Yes there are good care homes and not so good. I get defensive because I feel that people have too high expectations for the money they are willing to pay.

The home you describe as light, airy, friendly - was it funded as the others, or was it private paying residents only? Was it for severe dementia patients only and getting extra funding?

How do you entertain people who are too confused to follow a tv program, play cards, do a jigsaw, hold a full conversation, walk any distance unaided? Suggestions welcome.
The upshot is they sit in the dayroom with the tv blaring, the other option is to leave them sitting in their room looking at the wall.

I'm just trying to make the point that the 'terrible' care home that leaves them propped up in their chairs in front of the tv is probably the best option.

York College nursery, where a child died on her first day, had CCTV installed.

Not in soiled clothes suffering abuse whilst thirsty.

How do you entertain people who are too confused to follow a tv program, play cards, do a jigsaw, hold a full conversation, walk any distance unaided? Suggestions welcome.

You sit with them and talk to them, or just provide them with company, or listen to them talking about their childhood.

You listen to music with them, you would be amazed the memories music can trigger for people with dementia

Look at memory books with them

arrange group activities, painting whatever the individual enjoys

There are plenty acitivies which places can do, and that the good places do do, they get the same funding as the rubbish ones but they have staff who are willing to make an effort.

My dad worked on an NHS ward for patient with dementia and even on the very low NHS budget managed to ensure that people were not just left sat in a chair with the tv blaring, or sat in their room staring at the walls (unless of course that is what they wanted to do for periods of time)

Sirzy

I have a friend who is unable to work due to health reasons, but on her good days she volunteers to do this. It was her job when she was employed and she says the sense of worth it gives her is tremendous.
Your music comment is spot on and in their better days people with dementia talk to her a lot and enjoy the company.

12 nurseries over 12 working years isn't that many. I wouldn't feel as qualified in my opinion and post if I'd only worked in a few in one area. But 12 nurseries all over the UK and none of which I'd have left my dc in.

My own dd used childminders. She had selective mutism, the cm didn't understand the condition and didn't research it - she alternated between assuming dd couldn't talk and getting cross at her because she thought she was refusing to talk. Until one day 3 yr old dd broke her silence to shout to me in front.of cm that she'd left her in the car while she was crying while she went shopping, bribed her with chocolate to pose for a photo, let her watch endless films, told her Mummy would be so happy if she told me she loved cm etc.

At several of the nurseries I saw pictures being faked, photos being posed and manipulated, staff trying to teach the children to say they loved them etc. It's not on.

doziedoozie

How do you entertain people who are too confused to follow a tv program, play cards, do a jigsaw, hold a full conversation, walk any distance unaided? Suggestions welcome.

Please see below I think you missed my earlier Posts,

Businessman Sir Gerry Robinson, whose father had dementia when he died, tries to turn around three struggling care homes. A huge business worth six billion pounds, a great deal of it is inadequate.

He did a series of programs on the shocking disparities between the wealth of care home owners ( showing multi million pounds 40 room mansions), and the shocking poverty the actual residents were living in, with poor care, no entertainment, no actual care.

please see the links and passages below from the program.

He found a wonderful home that applied a different train of thought to care and was very successful.

Please note people with dementia live at merival.

We visited Merevale, a home in Warwickshire that manages to make residents feel alive and happy.

Residents there really live in the home and even help to run it. What is interesting is that Merevale does not cost more than most residential care homes to run.

The approach of actively involving residents in the home not only works on an emotional level, but it makes good business sense too. This home is rated as 'excellent' and is always full. The staff are valued, so the recruitment and training costs are low. Everyone wins.

Gerry recommended many of the practices he witnessed in Merevale to a care home we visited in Leicester called Summervale

Immediate impact

He even asked dementia care consultant David Sheard to come into Summervale to train the staff.

David tried to get them to think about care in a completely different way, encouraging them to look at the care centre as a home.

David Sheard, of Dementia Care Matters, explains what makes Merevale a success

So the work of turning Summervale into a home began - the staff got rid of their uniforms, started eating with the residents and set about filling up the stark empty spaces with distractions such as dolls, toys and other everyday objects.

Gerry noticed an immediate impact, not only on residents, but on the staff too. It was fascinating to see how quickly these small changes took hold.

BBC News - Dementia care 'failing' the elderly

Rebecca Wood, Chief Executive of the Alzheimer's Research Trust, also recognises that the dementia care system is "antiquated " and "lags far behind achievements in medicine and care elsewhere".

"We cannot continue to brush this problem under the carpet, and only by improving vastly our standards of care and our investment in research can we ever hope to end the growing misery dementia causes now and in the future," she adds.

I hope this series will make people realise that the care industry in this country has a long way to go before we can be sure that our loved ones will spend the final years of their lives in a happy and truly caring environment.

image

BBC News - Dementia care 'failing' the elderly
Business guru Sir Gerry Robinson, whose father had dementia when he died, has set out to turn around three struggling dementia care homes for a new BBC d...

View on news.bbc.co.uk

I'm just trying to make the point that the 'terrible' care home that leaves them propped up in their chairs in front of the tv is probably the best option

@ dozydoe

I hope you can see that leaving them propped up is the easiest most unimaginative and laziest answer.

www.merevalehouse.co.uk/

Dozie ' Yes there are good care homes and not so good. I get defensive because I feel that people have too high expectations for the money they are willing to pay. However care should be good for those who can't afford to pay for it.

The home you describe as light, airy, friendly - was it funded as the others, or was it private paying residents only? Was it for severe dementia patients only and getting extra funding?'

If my Mother is paying for care costing what it does a year here ie. 40k plus then damn right I have high expectations. That's more than I will ever earn a year and her 200k care pot is her lifetime's assets. She's lucky to have that as it gives her choice. Others aren't so fortunate.

All the Homes I have looked at are private as she is self funding. The light, airy one opened 3.5 years ago and takes people at any stage of Dementia. Others have answered you question about alternatives to TV. There needs to be a big change in ethos.

I'd prefer to trust the professionals to deal with any minor incidents and only tell me of incidents they deemed serious.

There is the knub of it all. Trust.

imo, trust has to be earned. Mine went to a smallish pre school? back in the day. But parents had to take their turn at volunteering. So we knew most of what went on. It would have been very difficult if not impossible to not have seen things. And we saw the staff work regularly.

Tanith. Where does your trust come from.
And is your child at nursery?

And to me, CCTV has pluses. Giant big ones. Far more than any minuses.

In an ideal world, hopefully most will have CCTV. Which will leave a few that dont for those that dont want it.

choplouey

Can I ask a question. Why did your DD choose that particular childminder?

i am furious at the idea that the best option is leaving people sat up in front of a blaring tv. what a cop out.

at least we have started talking about 'care' homes. their regulator was a disgrace when i tried to use them, as were the senior staff. and the residents were then punished for speaking out. some care homes are disgusting. this was an award winning private one btw. council is often better, i have heard. maybe as less profit is diverted

Merevale does look wonderful but I see it has 14 residents. Only 14. We are going to need an awful lot of merevale's to cope. And it seems to be run by a devoted and dedicated lady, let's hope we can find more of these.

No the tv doesn't have to be blaring it can be turned off but how would you fill 12 hours a day for people unable to get about or join in. Just trying to make people see that their aspirations can be unreasonable.

Can be un reasonable Dozy in a particular mind set.

Its like when people with Downs Syndrome were put in huge cages in gardens all day...after all what else was there to do with them? That was in the 90's.

If this lady who is the expert in her field thinks:

Rebecca Wood, Chief Executive of the Alzheimer's Research Trust, also recognises that the dementia care system is "antiquated " and "lags far behind achievements in medicine and care elsewhere".

Then from my own personal knowledge and what I have seen and read, I will say its ^ antiquated.

It isn't unreasonable, lots of places - with more residents - have shown it is possible

Kinsorange. I'm a childminder. My trust comes from working with and knowing other professional childcarers and knowing what to look for.
I attend compulsory safeguarding training every couple of years and the concerns I mentioned have been discussed in the last two courses I attended.

I find it bizarre that people have so little trust in the professional childcarers with whom they've left their children that they would insist on CCTV, yet will happily trust other parents they don't know to have access to those images.
There's evidence on this thread that some parents aren't even looking at it.

CCTV doesn't prevent abuse. It doesn't ensure that staff are on their best behaviour. It certainly doesn't ensure that children are not left unsupervised to wander around. It would not have prevented Vanessa George abusing those children; it didn't save the poor child who died.
So what's its purpose? What does it do?

Well, one thing it does is to cost those nurseries using it a lot of money. That pushes up costs, making the nursery more expensive for parents. All because the CCTV firms have tapped into parents' fears and have convinced them that childcarers must be observed at all times in order to "trust" them.