to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

macdoodle. You are setting the bar really low, if you want bad childcare at home and in nursuries.

dozie - What if it isn't possible? I don't have children. If my partner isnt able to care for me because of age or disability if I get alzheimers, is it fair to expect a distant relative to care for me?

And I have a friend whose father is in a care home. The same father who raped and abused her as a child. She owes him nothing.

My second to last post is talking about CCTV in nursuries.

Nonsense dozi, I am saying that I bet all these perfectly perfect SAHM are not as perfect as they like to believe.

turgiday
Posts complaining about the standard of care are usually from the family of those going into care homes and it seems that it's all too hard for the family to care but these lowly qualified badly paid carers will somehow do the care better, seems not very likely. So it's a bit cheeky to complain.

Ime people with Alzheimers or dementia are sometimes distressed but it is nothing to do with the standard of care, it isn't that they are being treated badly.

Also someone described a care home as battery farming for demented people - ime it is VERY hard to entertain demented people for hours, my DM's care home ran singsongs and had lovely 'entertainers' come in but the residents looked nonplussed and certainly not happy to see them. And most were keen to get back to their rooms.

The patients are often not mobile are deaf, confused. What inexpensive solution do the complainers have for improving the lives of these people. Really it is a matter of keeping them safe, that's all, it looks like factory farm for the demented but I spose that is what it is.

As for visitors, the elderly person prob won't know they've had a visitor 10 mins, no make that 3 mins after they've gone.

I just wish some posters would be more realistic, elderly people who are mobile, compos mentis, able to keep busy/ read books/ watch tv/ sing in sing-alongs are not in care homes. They are still in their own homes leading happy lives. So looking for somewhere full of those people for your Delderly rellie to live with is not going to happen.

dozie you make some good points. However, it is also true that there are a body of people, not necessarily with dementia, who are old and a bit ill, but shouldn't be sedated. The amount of sedatives given in some old people's homes is shocking.

I am on the fence in this debate. I have seen nurseries where I didn't like the whole tone of the thing, the 'baby room' with far too many babies for anyone to pick up all the time, me and my husband fled and agreed it wasn't for us. However, the only truly shocking care I've ever see has been from parents, I think of a little boy being marched down the road by his mum swearing and cursing at him ('you f*ing little shit, I hate you'), the time I saw a granny pinch a child surreptitiously when lining up, kids rapped across the knuckles, child called 'you little bitch'. If I made a thread about these examples, weirdly everyone would tell me not to judge and that perhaps that person just had a bad day. I don't buy this, no-one needs to do this ever, and you can always tell it's not a one off because the children are pleading or resigned to it.

I'm not saying there isn't poor care in some childcare, but they aren't, in the main, sedating the children, and although in a small minority of cases there may be abuse, sadly I think some children would be much better off in nurseries or preschools to get away from their horrid parents.

Erm Dozie report after report is showing how dire care for the elderly is and not reaching standards.

All residents deserve the best regardless of what they are suffering from.

Until standards improve I will move heaven and earth to ensure none of our parents ever step foot in a care home of have unknown carers in their homes.

Good luck on that.

Basic care doesn't have to be expensive to provide though. Yes it would help if care homes had much more money but they good ones get the same as the bad ones so it is possible.

My grandmother was in a fantastic care home who would go to great lengths to ensure that each person in their care was looked after well and how they deserved going to great lengths to personalise care. Perhaps the fact they were ran by an owner who was very actively involved and knew the families and the residents well helped? They had a 24/7 open door policy and never turned relatives away which is always a positive sign IMO. We were lucky though that my dad had 30 years of experience working in care for the elderly so knew what to look for when we hunted for homes.

I and the three other CMs in my area work very hard to ensure that the children in our care are happy and stimulated and to build a good relationship with them and their parents.

We never work to full ratios as we believe that we then can give a degree of flexibility to the parents. Therefore we don't earn big bucks as lots of people believe (going rate around here is £3.25 per hour).

I understand in every profession there are some inadequate people but it is really demoralising when you get such spiteful comments (and moans about how expensive childcare is too).

I love my job but I am constantly aware of the responsibility I have to the families I work with, along with the long hours and lots of paperwork to do in my own time make this a hard job. I don't want sympathy (as I said I love my career choice) but could do without sweeping, negative comments, thank you.

@*dozie

We visited Merevale, a home in Warwickshire that manages to make residents feel alive and happy.

Residents there really live in the home and even help to run it. What is interesting is that Merevale does not cost more than most residential care homes to run.

The approach of actively involving residents in the home not only works on an emotional level, but it makes good business sense too. This home is rated as 'excellent' and is always full. The staff are valued, so the recruitment and training costs are low. Everyone wins.

Gerry recommended many of the practices he witnessed in Merevale to a care home we visited in Leicester called Summervale

Immediate impact

He even asked dementia care consultant David Sheard to come into Summervale to train the staff.

David tried to get them to think about care in a completely different way, encouraging them to look at the care centre as a home.

David Sheard, of Dementia Care Matters, explains what makes Merevale a success

So the work of turning Summervale into a home began - the staff got rid of their uniforms, started eating with the residents and set about filling up the stark empty spaces with distractions such as dolls, toys and other everyday objects.

Gerry noticed an immediate impact, not only on residents, but on the staff too. It was fascinating to see how quickly these small changes took hold.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8399760.stm

I think part of the problem is trying to make care part of the profit making business world. Part of business is cutting costs etc. Society doesn't value caring for people, only making money. Hence SAHP being devalued.

DS's non for profit playgroup was lovely but I wouldn't have liked him in it 40 hrs a week because he is just another kid there and not 'special'/loved like he is to family members or parents.

A CM near me was struck off so sometimes it is worth reporting. the couple were always having domestics with the police round due to the noise and profanities being shouted, I felt so sorry for the kids. Also they were abusive to the kids by laughing at them if they wet themselves and treating them like dirt. They ran for a few years though before someone found out about it (a child told their parents).

What inexpensive solution do the complainers have for improving the lives of these people. Really it is a matter of keeping them safe, that's all, it looks like factory farm for the demented but I spose that is what it is

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8399760.stm

see article

I expect my elderly resident to be cared for attentively in a care home because the people looking after them have one priority - to look after the residents. People are often unable to care for people at home because they would be balancing care with paid work, with childcare, with their own activities and needs etc. Saying that if you refuse to care for someone at home you don't have any right to complain about the quality of care in a home is disgusting and offensive to the millions of unpaid carers and people who have made the decision to use a care home. Half of all unpaid carers have had to give up work because of their caring role - saying that that is an excuse not to want to care for someone at home is insulting. You're talking shit.

Rebecca Wood, Chief Executive of the Alzheimer's Research Trust, also recognises that the dementia care system is "antiquated " and "lags far behind achievements in medicine and care elsewhere".

"We cannot continue to brush this problem under the carpet, and only by improving vastly our standards of care and our investment in research can we ever hope to end the growing misery dementia causes now and in the future," she adds.

I hope this series will make people realise that the care industry in this country has a long way to go before we can be sure that our loved ones will spend the final years of their lives in a happy and truly caring environment.

Agreed RetroPear. I was happy enough to accept the webcam/CCTV in the playroom as it's a room that's pretty much exclusively used for that purpose. But having it all over the house - hell no. Even having it only in the areas the children use would be unfeasable - nappies have to be changed in a room with running water, which means our family bathroom. I am not having CCTV in the bathroom. It would be a violation of both my family's privacy and the dignity of the children. The children tend to run between the playroom and DD's bedroom so the hall would have to be covered- but that would also cover the walk from the bedroom to the bathroom.

We can already have an inspector drop in at no notice whatsoever - we had an unannounced inspection just last month.

I doubt it - children can speak up and tell their parents what they are feeling and most parents would move heaven and earth to make sure their children were happy - unlike elderly relatives.

I have seen what you describe with nannies in coffee shops ignoring the babies. And I have no doubt there are bad nurseries and CMs out there. But I have every confidence that my dc are happy at their nursery and childminder (one at each). Because I have carefully selected (ofsted reports, references, other parent feedback, careful observation and instinct) and pay for good ones.

If any of my dc were unhappy or not thriving with the childcare solutions I have provided I would change them. If there was still an issue I would work from home, change jobs and ultimately give up work if I had to. But I can quite confidently say that they are perfectly happy and enjoy many of the activities they do there which I rarely have time to do with them at home, with homework, housework, older dc activities etc - eg baking, arts and crafts etc.

I have reported 2 child minders in the past - one to the Police and one to my DS's head teacher who reported to OFSTED (and to the child's parents).

The first one hit a child (sitting in its buggy) over the head with a full bottle of Lucozade outside a shop. I was in the pub opposite and saw it along with many other people, who all made statements to the Police.

The second one used to walk her mindees to school and always walked well ahead, while the younger ones (4yrs old) trailed a long way behind. On this particular day one of her older mindees (aged about 9yrs) full on smacked another mindee in the face with his school bag and started kicking him, just as they walked through the school gates. All the CM did was scream "Pack it in" and then left the hurt child to cry, while she waited for the younger ones to catch up.

I told the HT and she said she too had seen it from her office window, and that it wasn't the only concern she had about her.

You will always get bad apples in any profession, it's just that they stay in your mind while you forget the tons of lovely, professional dedicated CMs that thankfully do exist.

I'm staggered re the attitude to the care of the elderly further down.

That in a nutshell is exactly why care for the elderly is so dire and why both our sets of parents are terrified re the thought of going into a care home.

Stat yes dp would love a camera homing in on him on the loo.

Dozie 'Posts complaining about the standard of care are usually from the family of those going into care homes and it seems that it's all too hard for the family to care but these lowly qualified badly paid carers will somehow do the care better, seems not very likely. So it's a bit cheeky to complain'

With respect you are utterly and completely mising the point. I am one person trying to work and raise two children. I tried to keep my Mother at home as long as possible and pretty much had a breakdown over the whole thing as she woukd not accept the care I organised, turned against me tellng the Social Worker I was evil, plotting against her, didn't want me involved in her care and that I was after her money.

It was untenable for me to look after her. She had to go into Care. We fully expect to spend all 200k of her assets on that and we will be paying 40-50k a year for her needs to be met. I then object to CH's paying staff the absolute minimum possible and not valuing their staff. They do a difficult job and deserve a decent wage.

Also there is a world of difference quite clearly looking after people who you are not related to and have the pain of seeing their personality break down in front of you and you can then go back to your life and being responsible for that person 24 hours a day as family carers do. I therefore do not feel it is remotely cheeky to expect a team of people to do what one person can not. It is in fact basic common sense and all the health care professionals say to families that there comes a point where you won't be able to cope. There are obviously some exceptions but in the way our society is structured it usually becomes to much at some point with something like Dementia.

It was my Brother who made the comment about Battery farming. This was after seeing a few places. We saw a place yesterday who had people with pretty severe Dementia. It was light, airy, friendly, homely and a world apart fom some of the places where people are bunged in front of the TV. It can be done.

To give an example of adapting care to each person they have someone who throws cups off a balcony onto the walk way below. Clearly it is dangerous so the needed to act. Solution is to build a cover for that area and then plant with various flowers to make extra feature for the garden. The guy who throws cups is then free to do so safely rather than be told not to or given cups and increase agitation levels in doing so.

Re child care time and time again these threads get polarised into SAHMs versus Working parents and all this serves to do is distract from the main care issues which is a shame.

Actually my Aunt with dementia went into a care home. Relatives kept her at home as long as possible looking after her. But when she started physically attacking people, including frequent biting, it just became dangerous. She was still strong.

Remember if you are looking after your elderly parents, you can easily be in your 60s or 70s yourself and not always as strong as you once were.

The first one hit a child (sitting in its buggy) over the head with a full bottle of Lucozade outside a shop. I was in the pub opposite and saw it along with many other people, who all made statements to the Police

I don't know why you all bothered apparently the child could have communicated that to their parents

I would be concerned at any facility that had CCTV, to be honest. It's an invasion of privacy.

I would not be happy for other parents to see my child:
Having a tantrum
Having a toileting accident
Masturbating
Being told off by staff
Struggling with an activity

Nor would I want to take the risk of other parents sharing viewing with other family members and work colleagues.

I would be concerned about security and the system being hacked, too.

It's easy enough to carry out abuse off camera, so I think cameras lull parents into a false sense of security.
There have been instances of parents ringing up nurseries to 'report' a child who is, in their opinion, behaving badly. Would you be happy if that were your child? If the parent tackled you because s/he didn't agree with the way the nursery was dealing with it?

If you trust your carer so little that you have to access film of him or her every moment of the day, maybe you're not ready to leave your child with them. You are, after all, supposed to be working, aren't you?