to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

Childminders and nursery workers who post on internet forums about childcare are usually fine. They want to talk or learn more about the subject. It's the ones who have no real opinions or interest in it but still do the job which worry me.

I think the attitude to care of the vulnerable in this society is appalling and the wages paid to those that care for them totally make the point. There needs to be a huge shift in culture and wages should reflect the importance of the jobs they do.

We're in the middle of trying to find a new Care Home for my Mother, I saw Home number 12 yesterday which was one of the very few which as my Brother put it, wasn't like Battery farming for Demented people. I checked adverts for staff for one we saw where the fees are up to 77k a year and their Care Assistants are paid £6.75 an hour.

I have more faith in Ofsted than I do in the CQC and I don't have a lot of faith in Ofsted right now after they marked DD's lovely school as inadequate with clear failings in Ofsted's conduct. There needs to be a campaign to improve care for the vulnerable in Society. Again in the words of my Brother who has just returned to the UK after 5 years away, it is a National Disgrace.

And you think a childminder "not noticing" something about a mindee for an hour is in any way acceptable?

Janey excellent post, spot on. It seems just fine to criticize and scare monger those parents who choose to work, but gosh just you dare to try that on those that stay at home, because clear those are the REAL parents, the rest of us are just deluded.

No, but if you're supervising them running round the soft play area, and can see them every couple of minutes as they come into view, unless you have the nose of a bloodhound or crawl into the softplay every 10 minutes to sniff everyone's bottoms then I can see how you might not notice.

Ive seen planty of PARENTS ignore their children, smelly nappies, shout and be on their phones in soft play. By comments here they must be terrible parents and their children removed ?

If a child is young enough to still be in nappies then it is in no way acceptable for them to just be watched from a distance for an hour. Believe me you couldn't miss the smell - most other parents went and checked it wasn't their child.

The fact you are justifying that says a lot really and if you are also a childminder as it appears then I wouldn't want to leave a child with you either!

Right, I'm off as my 3 year old has arrived so I better sit and stare at her for 10 hours.

In fact I might start a thread on it....just to wind the SAHM up because clearly that was the OP intent.

and yes I would judge anyone who left a child in a pooy nappy for so long.

Perfect parent alert clearly. I must be a crap on, funny my kids seem fine, but maybe they're just pretending or too scared to say anything as clearly all these abused neglected children in childcare must be, or do the same rules not apply to parents.

But it is acceptable to watch a 3 yo from a short distance . Many 3 yo's are still in nappies and you can see if they are OK.
If they are happy playing, what do you think should be done. Get in there with them and look at them closer?
Children need to play independently.
I also refuse to believe she knew about the poo for an hour before doing anything as it would then have been a hell of a lot harder to clear up. especially if the lo was running and jumping all over.
If she did then that is very poor. But how does it differ to the nurseries which have a set nappy changing time ?

Believe me a lot of them exist that ONLY change nappies at certain times

if not leaving a child sat in poo makes me a perfect parent then I must be one.

In reality I am far from a perfect parent, and have never claimed to be. But I am unsure why anyone is trying to justify someone who is being paid to look after a child ignoring them to the extent they are running around in their own shit.

I can just imagine the response if someone posted on here "I picked my child up from nursery and they had obviously been in a pooy nappy for ages" people would have understandably been very critical of the nursery for allowing that to happen yet people are trying to justify it from a childminder? I will never understand the thinking on here at times

Refuse to believe it all you like but it happened.

Thanks. That made me feel great about having to return to work in there weeks leaving my baby son 9 mo and daughter 3 at a nursery 4 days a week. I have to work to provide for them. I did a lot of research about where my children should be looked after.

On a separate note, as someone who witnessed these things, and obviously didn't like it or your wouldn't have started this thread. I really hope you reported these incidents, or tried to raise standards where you worked?

*three weeks

I did a lot of research about where my children should be looked after.

I think thats the key, you have hunted and found somewhere you are comfy with.

The vast majority of childcare providers are great/fine as parents you just need to follow your instincts. I looked around some nurseries I wouldn't leave DS at for various reasons, the nursery I picked I was confident in and there is nothing which would stop me reccomending that to someone locally

We did have cctv for a while, although only in the playroom as it's also our home and I think expecting us to have cctv everywhere is just too intrusive. But, when it broke down we checked and none of the parents had ever accessed it, so we didn't replace it.

I think what is frustrating is that in every profession there are people who are great, people who are crap, and ones in between. But with childminders it's like people are very quick to assume that because they have come across someone bad, everyone is like that. You wouldn't do it with most other professions. I don't assume that because I dealt with a rude, rubbish nurse all nurses are rude and rubbish and proceed to insult thousands of people.

I use nursery so I can work, CCTV is useless for most working parents -they wont be able to watch it because they are working.

My Dsis has worked in nurseries and preschools. I'm afraid some of the stories she tells me are awful. Yes she's reported, yes she's left these jobs. (She lives and works in a very middle class area before anyone thinks it just happens in certain areas.)

She says make sure you do lots of research, only choose one where you can visit for at least an hour- watching children and adults interact. There are many wonderful, caring nursery workers who care for the child as they would their own. The nasty ones are in the minority. So do your research, as long as your child seems happy then I'm sure they are being looked after.

I think one main problem with care homes is that hardly anyone visits. Sadly, many old people get few visitors. Also, the elderly live there and much abuse has taken place at night. If I were to choose a nusery, I'd look for one with a steady stream of parents throughout the day.

"If a cm doesn't want CCTV she us in the wrong job"

Ha ha.Cm have to register every room they use.When I was a cm my mindees were part of the family and could play anywhere,nowhere was out of bounds as I wanted them to feel at home(the whole point of a cm).

There is no way I would have tolerated my dc on CCTV in their own home and bedrooms and dp would have flatly refused too.No way would I gave CCTV in my bedroom or bathrooms or anywhere in my home.

Mandatory CCTV would push out many good childminders imvho and reduce choice for parents.The whole reason I got into it was because friends desperately wanted me to have their children and it would have been illegal not to go through the whole registering palaver.It then mushroomed after.If CCTV was mandatory I wouldn't have done it and my mindees would have missed out on a degree educated,Outstanding cm known to the families.

I would just like to point out that childminders watch each other and in a community believe you me nothing goes unchecked.I'd find it easier to report a cm than a colleague in a nursery as it's just an anonymous phone call and you have limited contact with the person you'd be reporting.In a community everybody knows who use cm,the cm and the kids involved.Schools,other parents,other cm etc.If word got round you weren't doing your job properly you'd be toast pdq and subject to another thorough Ofsted visit.

I've seen it happen.

SAHMs are not always behaving perfectly with their DCs. Imagine you have a dying relative/ DP leaving you/ acute financial probs are you going to be the perfect, fun loving, attention giving DM to your DCs you want to be?

And Care Homes are mainly for the care of elderly with dementia and alzeimhers, they could be unhappy and distressed at home and unhappy and distressed in their care homes due to their illness as much as their home. Nor do people want to live in a home full of demented and confused and distressed old people. The answer to that is keep them in your own home and care for them yourself - suddenly there are all these reasons why that isn't possible, but this impossible task is expected to be done lovingly in a care home - expecting miracles really.

If CCTV is there and on, the staff would probably, most not all, be aware and act accordingly.
No, a lot of parents are not going to watch.
But if there is a problem there, it will have been recorded. At least some of it.