to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

There is a huge difference between watching/supervising to ensure safety and make sure the child is happy, and being actively involved in their play. Sometimes it is good for children to play "independently" within a safe, secure environment.

Actually, the assessment framework in Scotland has changed recently and there is a fair amount about children learning to interact, co-operate, develop communication skills all in relation to their peers as well as learning how to assess risks. Whilst a younger child would need more constant attention/interaction I think under the new guidance a childminder who constantly interacted with, say, a 3 year old and never gave them the opportunity to play more freely could score poorly as constant 10 hour a day interaction is not helping them to achieve that or preparing them for school.

I went back to work full time when ds was 3, i interviewed 3 childminders in their homes to help me choose the right one for us. The first one i saw was awful, she took me into her dog-scented living room where we talked about her routines & payment terms etc, all standard stuff. I assumed she had no children on the premises at the time since there was no noise of children, no toys or books or anything. Then she showed me into her kitchen where there was a toddler (approx 18 months) sitting strapped into a highchair eating carrot sticks all by herself. I'd been there 15 minutes or so, that child had sat there eating lunch on her own all that time. The childminder then had the cheek to get all funny with me when i decided to place my ds elsewhere. I've got the best childminders in the world now, a crack husband & wife team with outstanding ofsted reports. My kids love them.

When I was a part time working mum to two little ones, I could never be arsed to go to play groups on my days off. I figured my toddlers had peer interaction and socialising aplenty at nursery, I had a social scene at work, and frankly I enjoyed doing stuff at home with them more.

Now that I know id have been expected to spend my time on a surveillance mission, sussing out any childminders there and monitoring how many minutes they spent interacting with their mindees, I'm really glad I didn't bother with the playgroup and coffee morning scene. . It must be a full time job fretting so much about everyone else's kids.

No, Retro, I don't know how they would feel (which was the word I used) about things they've never experienced. I am not them. I can only know how I feel. I could project my feelings on to them but that wouldn't actually be their feelings, would it? It would be mine. I could have an educated guess but that still isn't the same as knowing.

I can decide what I think would suit my children best but neither they nor I can be 100% sure of how they feel if they haven't tried all the options.

Completely unrelated to the thread, but yolandi I love your name. I am HUGE Die Antwoord fan.

I've seen SAHM's like that too though. Childcare is more closely monitored and regulated than aged care. The pay in both professions has been crap for a long time so it's little wonder that they are often scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to staffing (no disrespect intended to those who work in the area and do a great job regardless).

Do nurseries not have cameras in each of the rooms, so that parents can access them remotely from work? There is the risk of a security breach, I suppose, but you can at least ensure that kids aren't wandering around aimlessly while being ignored.

I heve never met a nursery nurse who didnt bring their children to nursery with them from babies up. My best friends baby is 8 weeks and she cant waito get back to work ans bring her dc in with her. I never understand these threads where all the nursery nuses hate nurseries as its so not like rl. My ten or so closest friends all have our children attend nurseries we attend from babies.

I do agree nursery suits certain children more than others as nursery, school, groups, brownies, drama classes etc suit extroverts and very socialchildren more. Its the same as adults.

Choose one with CCTV. They should be mandatory in childcare and working with the elderly.

Also reporting should not mean that you lose your job, or cant get rehired.

Abd for that I place the blame solely at the Government, all Governments.

exactly surely there cant be many nurseries left without cctv in this day and age.

Kin, I agree. CCTV should be mandatory in nursing homes and all childcare facilities. If a CM doesnt want cameras on whilst they have mindees then they are in the wrong job. Care standards would improve no end and the person paying for the care would have peace of mind as they can watch at any time.

My DCs went to my workplace nursery where staff were relatively well paid (final salary pension) and with NO turnover of staff (apart from re ML) in the 6 years my DCs were there. Manybof my coworkers also sent their DCs there, and (being on site) the nursery were well used to parents dropping in unannounced. MycDCs still ask to go there for the holiday play scheme.

I find it very odd OP that you have worked for 12 nurseries!! 12 !

I must admit that I struggled with the idea of a CM, just the thought of one person being so responsible for my DCs, and preferred the nursery setting. However, the CM who does after school for a number of my DCs' friends is a hell of a lot more attentive than most school mums. I regularly walk home and see her engaging with her minders, singing songs, playing silly games, whilst most parents are on their phones!

Actually I don't think if I was a CM I would want CCTV in my home.

Haven't read all replies as getting ready for school - willbe bback later.

Just to make it clear for SirChenjin and others - I did report, so I am certainly not on a par with those who neglected the children, thank you.

For those of you saying 'its not as bad as care homes because they also get care before and after childcare from their parents' - what about the children that are in nursery 7 a.m. until 6 p.m. then in bed by 7 p.m.? There's an awful lot of them. What about when a baby or nonverbal child is grumpy with their parent because they've been upset all day and that parent either a) thinks it's because they've had such a fun busy day with their childcarer or b) feels shit because they think 'dc is happy for/with childcarer but not with me. I know of parents who leave their babies/children to CIO on thebbasis that their childcarer says they're happy all day, therefore a bit of crying at night is fine. If that childcarer is dishonest, thats a lot of time that child spends being miserable.

Totally agree with whoever said that children being poorly treated may still appear happy to go to childcare,just as abused cchildren will want to stay with abusive parents. I saw many children who it seemed liked the idea but the reality for them was different, which they couldn't communicate. The 'spaced out' child who seemed to be wondering wtf was going on was almost more upsetting to see than the hysterical ones.

If a CM doesnt want cameras on whilst they have mindees then they are in the wrong job it's our family home with our own children getting dresses/ undressed/ bathed in the same rooms we use for childminding.
How would that work, then?
My own bedroom is registered. Twice a week my assistant gets an extra half hour in bed whilst I open up. we are officially open. Do you think he wants to be filmed getting out of bed naked and getting dressed?
Jesus, it takes over your life enough as it is without our whole families being filmed.
Would you ask to see footage from all my rooms if you thought something was amiss?

I adore my CM she has looked after my dd2 since she was 4 months old along with her grand daughter of the same age. She is like a grandmother to my child, and my now 6 yr old loves going there and will choose her over any other option in the holiday. For every negative story am sure there is a positive one they just don't make very good gossip do they OP. I too find the 12 nurseries odd you must be a terrible employee, becaue you can't be very old to have had so many jobs.

CCTV is a great idea
We also need to remember that parents really do know their own children best. As a parent you are tuned in to your child's emotions and other aspects of development. Don't all good parents make decisions for their children and constantly monitor and review them?

This is the bit that some of us find puzzling I suppose. If a poster says on here (as a few have) that nursery wouldn't suit their children, or that they don't have any decent childcare provision in their local area, then I believe them.
Strangely that confidence in people's parenting isn't reciprocated. It seems that if we say 'ok I hear you, but my children love nursery, are thriving etc' there are suspicious responses such as 'aah but you don't really know do you...' Or 'well just because a nursery is ofsted- outstanding doesn't mean it's good'.
News flash: us parents are perfectly capable of working that our for ourselves. We don't just read a few nursery reports, pick an 'outstanding' nursery and drop our kids off and collect them when they're grown up!

As I said before, of course there is variation in standards- just as there is in schools, hospitals, and indeed family homes. Tbh these type of threads which pop up every so often are probably the result of bored or mischievous posters, because really on MN you are preaching to the converted... All of us on here are likely to be caring responsible parents. If you are genuinely interested in improving the lives of children in neglectful homes, or in getting sub standard nurseries or care homes shut down or staff suspended, then you'd be channeling your energies in a positive way. And as for the people who say they have worked in rubbish nurseries (and a few posters seem to have worked country wide in terrible places) yet failed to do anything about it other than pop up on MN 10 years later... Well, words fail me. Other than to say it speaks volumes and I would never have considered leaving my child with a 'carer' like you

The way forward is to trust parents that we make the best decisions for our children - I wouldn't dream of interrogating a parent who doesn't want to use nursery as to why, or hinting that their child must be missing out in some way. Their child, their decision. And simultaneously we should all care about the children out there who aren't living happy and positive lives- for whatever reason.

YANBU I ended up spending my capital so I would not have to send my children to any more abusive childminders or neglectful money making playschemes or nurseries - what I saw while I was trying to be hero mum with a mortgage was just awful.

I agre that there would be problems with CCTV in the home.
It would then have to be up to individual parents whether they wanted to send them there.

Am I living in a parallel universe of nice childminders here?
I tell you what, if you really want to find out how childminders work and think, have a look on the childmindingforum.
it is full of childminders asking questions/ seeking advice etc. Never once have I read a post that even slightly implies the CM is not doing her job with anything other than professionalism and care.
If you then compare it with say a teacher forum ( not slagging them off, just an example) there is a lot more "moaning" about the job.

www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/general-childminding-chat/

go down to general cm chat.
There's one on today about a 9 hour OFSTED inspection. 9 hours!!! You think we would do this if we didn't like children??!!

So because they don't post on an Internet forum about their shortcomings then that is an indication that all childminders must be nice?

The childminders I have witnessed locally I would never leave a child with. Infact I did once contact ofsted when I witnessed one in a soft play ignore all her mindees to the point which one was running around for over an hour in an obviously pooy nappy,

There are good, ok, and down right awful in every career and childcare is no different to that.

There are going to be good and bad. I should imagine that the good far outweigh the bad.

Why did you wait an hour to tell the CM about the pooey nappy?
It's considered the norm and good manners in all the places that I visit that as soon as you whiff a pooey nappy, you do a general " someone needs changing, is this your little one" call.
Confused as to why you think it's acceptable to leave him / her in poo when the CM obviously hadn't noticed.

Someone else mentioned it - the response was "Ye I will sort it when I have finished here" here was having a coffee with a friend/assistant.