To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

[dancersdad]

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about?

Obviously reaching across the seat and shoving you with her arms to try to make you fall from the seat was awful though

Yes that is awful and of course not mentioned until how many pages in.....

All rudeness aside. Why is the pregnant woman an entitled so and so?

She was entitled to a seat just as much as another person who needs a priority seat is.

I don't understand why pregnant women are classed as entitled. No one knows how much another person might be suffering.

Yy rootypig good post.

All entitlement is gone once someone's arse is parked in it so all this banging on about badges and her being pregnant really is irrelevant when the DW was too entitled and got there first. That's the crux of the matter. Had she not tried to barge the DW out of her seat maybe DW would have expanded on why she needed it? Maybe DW was in shock and lost for words - I'm sure we've all been there and got flustered?

At the end of the day two people have come on who were there and both said she was behaving rudely and obnoxiously. Being pregnant doesn't make that right.

By arse parked there I obviously mean someone who also takes priority.

I just don't think most of the population would

Right..... which is why they have had to create big signs and give out baby badges.

Which is why many pregnant women have written about their horrendous experiences...one line was....

" no one would have noticed me, 7 months pregnant on the Victoria line unless I was in full labour"

I also like to think the best of people, which is why I would have done my best within my comfort zone, to assure the pregnant lady I was really in need of the seat and not being selfish. I am sure she would have calmed down. Maybe even apologised.

Sadly though, pregnant ladies travels on the tube mitchel have not shown up the best of the human spirit. T hats life.

All entitlement is gone once someone's arse is parked in it

NO its not! Please offer this seat!

And I'm struggling to feel sympathy for someone who first tried to knock someone out of their chair, and then gave them abuse because she didn't think the answer sufficient to her liking.

She made that journey terrible for herself. There was every chance the priority seats would have been full anyway, but she made it unpleasant by engaging in rude behaviour.

I think her behaviour was awful, but more a cause for concern than castigation - especially in retrospect, which is how OP is posting.

My behaviour in life in general is always the worst when I am struggling the most.

I just think there's a curious lack of compassion for her. And I think there have been a lot of unnecessarily unpleasant posts here.

Anyway! also off to bed. I hope noone has to fight for a space in theirs

I really don't understand the vitriol aimed at the op and his wife, it is truly astounding. I am not anti pregnant women, I have been pregnant 5 times and had 3 kids. I have also had a chronic illness (and had to use the tube) - and quite frankly if anyone had started haranguing me about my right to sit in a priority seat at that point in my life I am not sure I would have maintained as much dignity as DancersDad and DancersDadsWife have in the face of some of the comments on this thread.

The pregnant woman in this instance was incredibly rude. Arseholes can be pregnant too you know, so it is entirely possible that this woman was just bloody rude!

The op explained that she had a right to sit in the priority seating, and any decent person would accept that explanation and ask other tube users if they could possibly sit in their seat.

beyond read my post after :)

People are saying that the OP/his wife should have told the pregnant lady of the need for them to have the seat... maybe that would have worked, maybe it wouldn't have. Maybe the pregnant lady was very angry, had had a bad day or whatever - and wouldn't have accepted any excuse as she had a badge. People are now just speculating and bending the events as they perceive them, not necessarily accurately.

I do feel sorry for people who need to sit and can't; it must make the journey very stressful. Instead though of arguing and haranguing about who is right and who is more deserving, why aren't we as tube/train customers taking it up with them? A MN campaign perhaps?

Yes two people who are on the same side and have started a thread to bleed their woes over a pregnant lady wanting a seat on the tube who missed out on a seat and had the audacity to start an argument about it..., who have not once shown her mercy or compassion.

slithy she, as I or anyone else who needs a priority seat is certainly entitled to ask for the seat. And it's not an unrealistic expectation to expect someone who doesn't need the sit to give it up.

But in my opinion it is behaving like an entitled so and so once being told that they can't sit because the other person also needs the seat to then bang on about it and make a fuss because they are pregnant therefore must need it more rather than just ask someone else for a seat. Maybe I'm in the minority here but I don't think I'm the centre of the universe and respect the fact other people may have needs etc.

Yes perhaps I should have given a reason, but I'd just been told I "had" to let her sit there because it was a priority seat and she had a baby on board badge so it was her seat. That was the start of the conversation. If you were taking two weeks to get over relatively simple surgery because you'd managed to make yourself ill again you wouldn't want to explain it to a train of complete strangers either, trust me.

Beyond I don't know how else to describe it. Of course I feel sorry for her, but when I said I needed to use a priority seat too, she launched an attack on me to try and make me feel guilty enough to move. She could quite easily have moved on and asked someone else. Had it been the other way around, I would have accepted she needed the seat and tried someone else. Being in pain isn't an excuse to launch a verbal attack on a complete stranger.

I give up.

Why is the pregnant woman an entitled so and so?

Because she believed that because she was pregnant she was entitled to the seat despite their being someone in the seat already, who was also entitled to it - so her state of pregnancy entitled her to take priority.

Ok. This is a generalisation of my observations about pregnant women. And my own pregnancies.
Pregnant women often have a bit of an "aura" about about them. They sometimes look like they're in a bubble. I think its from concentrating on that tiny life inside them. They are protective about their unborn baby. Certainly with my first, and then after a miscarriage, I felt protective and anxious when travelling and working and just being out in public.
When I see a pregnant woman I get a warm feeling and I feel a sense of protectiveness towards her, as though I'm drawn in by the protectiveness she feels towards her baby.
Some people see that and think "who the fuck does she think she is?" " entitled much?" " she's pregnant, not ill"
Etc.

beyond the fact that she tried to knock me out of the seat is mentioned in the opening post...

An average tube line has between 6-8 carriages (only exception is Waterloo and City line with 4) most have 8 priority seats per carriage so thats between 48 and 64 seats per train. Plenty of choice for people who need them.

On a Friday night I can imagine everyone is tired, stressed, worn out and unfortunately I don't think either the OP/DW or the pregnant lady were at fault but the rest of the commuters were the problem.

Its a sad country we have turned into, my students at school show me more consideration.

It's AIBU, people come on here all the time to 'bleed their woes'!

DancersDadsWife -I hope you stick around mumsnet and see some of the nicer, kinder and more supportive side, I really am flummoxed by the response that you and your dh have received. I really wish you well in your recovery.

beyond - I totally get the fact that a lot of the population do ignore and trust me I have had some horrendous experiences myself.

If OP and wife had of ignored then that's a completely different thread.

we are talking about a pregnant woman asking, and then someone saying no. It's much easier for people to ignore pregnant women or anyone ekes who may look like they need the seat, but if asked straight out for a seat in my experience people have given me it, and I would respect someone who said they needed it as I'd like to think they wouldn't lie.

but I'd just been told I "had" to let her sit there because it was a priority seat and she had a baby on board badge so it was her seat

but why do you think she said that, why do you think she was upset.

do you think your the first person to beat her to a seat?

how many people sit in priority seats when they don't need them.

i give up too.

I am failing to understand why the words, I feel really Ill, or I may faint...Or I have had an op....are so hard to say, and diffuse the situation.

All the articles all the evidence of peoples journeys on the tube...all the selfish people who take seats...The very need for those seats to be labelled to help people like her, but you just expect her to take you at face value, and stand.

beyond quite a few posters over the years hve made topics about rude women, pregnant ones. Do you take issue with all them or just this... Maybe because OP is a man ey?

And yes she bloody did have audacity in starting an argument. Launching into abuse and TRYIN TO KNOCK SOMEONE OFF THEIR SEAT is NOT acceptable.

I did specify all rudeness aside. And it seems to be applied to all pregnant women not just this one.

The pregnant woman was still entitled to a seat, just not that one.

Yes mitchel which is even more reason to think that ops wife wasn't very nice about it.

You don't seem to grasp that your on the tube, I have bumped hips with people millions of times dashing for a seat...no hard feelings, never any issues...you win some you loose some.