To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

[dancersdad]

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about?

OP thanks for clarifying, the conversation that I imagine if I was in your DW's position is quite different, especially if I was bruised from someone shoving me out of the way. Did your OP manage to tell the pregnant woman that she had just hurt her? It would have been the first thing I would say.

I can't understand why there are some snide and nasty remarks aimed at the OP.

I can't see how anyone could possibly believe the pregnant woman was reasonable.

I think some people just like to argue for the sake of it with little or no justification.

brian

Saying ' I've had an op' or something similar hardly explains your whole medical history. I personally wouldn't have a problem with giving away that tiny snippet of information.

As I said ' I need this seat' could mean anything from needing it because you're tired, needing it because you simply cannot be arsed to stand or even needing it because you have been walking for the past two hours and your feet ache.

I don't think it is unreasonable to want a bit of clarification

Or just enjoy being unpleasant, maybe.

"LyingWitch what did the OP do for his wife that really helped her? He should have asked for a seat as soon as they got on, if his wife wasn't going to."

FFS. His wife wanted to try to stand.

DW said she had a reason for needing the priority seat too. To me, that implies she had one of the priority reasons ie she was a person who found it "more difficult to stand"

being pregnant does not justfy rudeness either.

she wasnt prepared to listen about your DW needs.

YANBU

I don't think it is unreasonable to want a bit of clarification

I do actually. I think its rude to put someone in that position. When I was heavily pg I would have understood that someone needed the seat, because they directly told me so. No further clarification needed.

brian I'm assuming you haven't come across many people that just sit there because its close to the doors then. I have.

Picture this I ( heavily pregnant at the time) get on a bus, all downstairs seats are taken. I look over at the priority seats and there is two teens sitting there. I remain standing under the assumption that they must have a reason for sitting there other wise they wouldn't be there surely? A couple of stops down the route the teens stand up and begin to wave at someone waiting to board the bus. The passenger gets on and all 3 teens then go upstairs to sit when the whole time a very pregnant me was standing there right next to them holding onto the poles for dear life. They was sitting there purely to wait for a friend.

And don't even start me off on the woman who just had to sit there and made an elderly woman travel to the back because the poor little thing couldn't totter to the back in her ridiculously high stiletoes.

Not everyone who uses those seats actually need them and I'm not surprised that this lady doubted the wife's needs.

She shouldn't of been rude though.

brian I'm assuming you haven't come across many people that just sit there because its close to the doors then. I have.

Yes of course I have. I've done it myself. Yes I would get up if I saw someone needed it. Others aren't as observent. Some are rude. If someone asked me directly I would certainly get up. Generally if you ask people directly they are more likely to, although not always, granted. But if someone told me, after asking them, that they needed that seat, I would in fact assume that they needed that seat.
Did you ask the teen girls for the seat? If you did, fine. It doesn't sound like you did though. If you didn't, maybe you should have. You may have been pleasantly surprised.

Brian, read my post, I'm asking the OP to clarify the original situation, not her medical need.

Sorry, not his DW's medical need

Outside my work, there are limited blue badge spaces. There are more but it's a fair walk. Is it ok for me to challenge someone driving into the last BB and compare who needs it most?

I didn't ask them no. But from the conversation I had with a very nice man on crutches sitring behind me it sounded like he did ask them and they refused to move. It may of been different if I had asked myself who knows.

But the stiletto woman was asked numerous times and she point blank refused because ' it's hard to walk in heels' to make it worse nobody else on the bus offered to move to the back for the woman the only people who seemed at all bothered by this fragile old woman struggling to walk down a moving bus was a younger man and myself but as it happens we too were on the very back seat so there was nothing much we could do except stand up a physically help her to her seat instead of gazing out of the window like everyone else.

candy I'm not saying the wife should of been challenged I'm saying that a quick short ' I need this seat' was probably not the best answer. I've had an op, I struggle to stand or even I'm sorry but I also need this seat I would let you have it if I could but unfortunately that's not really possible.

Personally I would of said something along the lines of ' I'm sorry but I really struggle to stand for too long, Are you travelling far? If another seat doesn't open up soon we could take it in turns to sit down until one does open up' but that's just me.

Why didn't you just say "DW has a non visible disability so she does need this seat. I agree being pregnant means that you also need a seat. Why don't we ask if anyone can give their seat up for a pregnant or disabed person?" being passive agressive and not direcly asking if someone can give up their seat as you found doesn't actuall get results.

Candycoated, the blue badge scheme is something completely different, you are medically assessed by your council based on your mobility disability in order to use one. The priority seat could be used if you find standing uncomfortable and is self defining.

There are 42 seats on a tube carriage, yet the pregnant lady and the OP's wife were arguing over the same seat.

If the OP's wife said clearly that she needed to sit down due to a medical problem/ disability/ illness, then the pregnant lady should have asked somebody else to stand up. From the OP's post it's debatable how clear he and his wife were about this, and without being there we aren't going to establish this with any certainty. It does sound as if the pregnant lady was rude to keep arguing with them rather than asking someone else, but of course we are hearing this story one-sided from the OP, maybe the pregnant lady would describe the situation differently.

OP, if you are travelling on London public transport again, please do be clear and assertive asking for a seat for you wife if she needs one. You don't need to wait for a priority seat to become available. Often perfectly well people will sit in them and be reluctant to get up. You can also ask someone in a normal seat to stand up, saying "my wife is ill/ disabled/ just had surgery/ might faint". If the person says no, ask the person next to them.

In 9 months of pregnancy and commuting on London tubes and buses, only one person has ever stood up for me without me asking. When I politely ask, somebody always stands up- if the first person I ask ignores me, I ask the person next to them. But I think you do need to be assertive and politely ask, as otherwise people will either not notice you, chose to ignore you, or be unsure whether they will offend you ("is she pregnant or just fat? Is that person old enough to need a seat, or will they be insulted that I offered?"). It is always better to ask one individual person, rather than a whole carriage.

The fault lay with all the other people in the carriage for not standing up. But usually London commuters like to pretend everyone else isn't there, so once the disagreement turned into a vocal argument, I can imagine that everyone did just bury their heads in their newspapers to remain uninvolved.

My point is the same though, both women in question believed they had an equal need.

Actually in practise it may work out quite differently. My 83 year old uncle wasn't allowed a blue badge because he was elderly, but now that he has developed anaemia and finds it difficult to walk more than a couple of steps without getting severely out of breath, he is eligible.

He would have been eligible for a priority seat all along due to the fact he is an older person.

Argh, practice*

I don't understand why some people think it was the OP's job to find a seat for a mouthy woman capable of asking for herself, as she had already made obvious.

I have to be honest, when there are limited facilities e.g. priority seats or accessible toilets, I can't imagine arguing with someone if they got there first. My focus would be on finding myself a seat/toilet/space. It all boils down to understanding invisible disabilities and being respectful of the fact that most disabilities are invisible.

Tequila - because nobody in their right mind takes a very fragile person who cant stand into the London underground in the rush hour. It is common sense.

Just like my sister takes responsibility for her backproblems and avoid the underground and opts for a taxi, the OP and his wife should take responsibility for their issues and plan their travel arrangements in a way that looks after her health.

Or like broken suggests, go for a meal/coffee and wait for rush hour to finish before heading to the train-station, if a taxi is unaffordable. With some planning nobody needs to be inconvenienced or hurt, emotionally or otherwise.

Taking a fragile person who is post op to the underground in the rush hour traffic is not just madness, it is irresponsible.