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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

992 replies

dancersdad · 09/05/2014 19:34

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about? Confused

OP posts:
TequilaMockingbirdy · 10/05/2014 23:42

That has been replied to again and again littlebear if you'd RTFT

LittleBearPad · 10/05/2014 23:49

I have read the thread and the OP has only posted six times. And not once has he said why they didn't ask for a seat immediately upon boarding the train.

LittleBearPad · 10/05/2014 23:52

In fact the only thing the OP says is

"Perhaps she should have asked for a seat as soon as she got on"

Well yes and then the whole thing would have been avoided.

slithytove · 10/05/2014 23:53

I have to say I don't think it's a bad idea to do so in the future. Asking immediately helps to completely decrease that risk of falling, stitches reopening, etc etc. Especially since OP couldn't support DW without hurting her.

Doesn't make them wrong, or the rudeness of others right. But it's a good thing to consider in the future to ensure someone's safety.

TequilaMockingbirdy · 10/05/2014 23:55

The question has been answered by many people! As in why should she have to ask, why isn't it okay for a woman in pain to take opportunity of a free seat? You come onto te thread offering nothing that hasn't been said or answered before.

KatieKaye · 11/05/2014 00:00

Of course, had DW done just that, pregnant woman might very well have still asked her to move!

LittleBearPad · 11/05/2014 00:01

But when she got on there were no free seats so why not ask for one?

My question was to the OP, not other mumsnetters who weren't there and have made up their own version of events.

KatieKaye · 11/05/2014 00:07

Well maybe they will next time.
You can't think of everything, you know. Especially when you are tired and stressed and on a tube full of gits who didn't volunteer a seat later on when they were asked by OP. SO no guarantee that would have worked.
Also - AIBU doesn't mean that OP is sitting beside the PC just waiting to answer each and every question. Or that other posters can't respond to your messages.

slithytove · 11/05/2014 00:10

Of course it's ok to use a free seat. But it seems that in this world, London tube in rush hour, sometimes one has to ask. Especially if it's an invisible disability.

No harm in asking at the start of a journey, again saying this for the future doesn't mean OP was in the wrong.

LittleBearPad · 11/05/2014 00:12

I was told to rtft for a non-existent answer. I just pointed this out.

ithaka · 11/05/2014 00:43

dancersdad hopefully someone cares for the pregnant woman's wellbeing as much as you care for your wifes.

Do you honestly think you were as kind to the pregnant lady as you could have been? Why are you more angry at her than the other commuters, who did not need the seat?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 11/05/2014 00:51

What other kindness was he supposed to show here?

BumpNGrind · 11/05/2014 00:55

I agree that the DW or the OP could and probably should have asked for a seat when they first got on, for the DW's safety and comfort more than anything else. Clearly if a person is enough in need of a seat to defend their right to it, then they can also be in need enough to ask for it.

I also don't think the pg woman was rude to get on a tube, see someone take a priority seat and question whether or not they knew it was a priority seat.

The other commuters (bar the older woman) were rude and we are in danger of becoming a bystander community where people are in clear view, but oblivious to the suffering of others.

Retropear · 11/05/2014 06:18

I don't get why anybody who was frail,post op(I've had several ops too) and with poor mental health would choose to travel by tube in rush hour.Confused

Utter madness.

Surely if it was a one off you'd either take a taxi or have a coffee until rush hour was over.When I've had surgery like that we've always been asked how we're getting home if the hospital were concerned.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 11/05/2014 06:28

The joirney must hvae been awful. There would have been an extraordinary amount of pushing, climbing steps, being knocked into at rush hour in the tube.

Of course your dw needed a seat. I hope she's ok.

I say again that i dont imagine she should have to say she has a disability, or to give her medical history Confused, but saying "I'm not well", IMO, rather than "i need to sit down" would have been met with an entirely different response than the unpleasant rant which ensued.
And before I'm accused of victim blaming here, the reason I make that point is that you've not veered from the position that the pregnant woman comsidered that her right, as a pregnant woman, overrides everyone else's (including someone terribly unwell) to a seat on the tube. And I don't think that she did. I just think she had a moan because she thought someone was taking the piss, and she knew a whole carriage full of ppl sitting down were taking the piss and probably goes through this every day both before and after a day at work

i think it was an ill advised joirney tbh, but you seem adamant it couldnt be avoided.

Tbh. If i was so underweight as to be at risk from breaking bones when I fell, and still in the early days of covering from abdominal surgery, and my dh did not carry me home in his arms/ drive me/ get me a cab secure me a seat on the tube immediately I'd have had to kill him with my last scrap of strength on arrival home.

KoalaDownUnder · 11/05/2014 07:17

I say again that i dont imagine she should have to say she has a disability, or to give her medical history confused, but saying "I'm not well", IMO, rather than "i need to sit down" would have been met with an entirely different response than the unpleasant rant which ensued.

Exactly.

LittleBearPad · 11/05/2014 07:24

I say again that i dont imagine she should have to say she has a disability, or to give her medical history confused, but saying "I'm not well", IMO, rather than "i need to sit down" would have been met with an entirely different response than the unpleasant rant which ensued.

Agreed

jacks365 · 11/05/2014 07:30

I'm not well could mean anything though and may not have been met with any more respect than a straight forward I need the seat. A cold means someone is not well but it wouldn't entitle them to use a priority seat.

I don't live in London nor do I have to deal with commuting in conditions like that, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking for a seat until it was absolutely essential so I can understand the op not asking either.

LittleBearPad · 11/05/2014 07:37

At least saying I'm not well/I'm ill gives a reason rather than just stating I need it.

But given what the OP says it was essential. His wife wasn't just feeling a little queasy, she was recovering from major surgery, has an eating disorder and could have broken a bone if she fell.

Ask for a seat next time.

Goldenbear · 11/05/2014 07:59

I think the people at fault are those that didn't offer the pregnant woman a seat in the rest of the carriage. Maybe she was deliberately arguing with you and your wife over the seat to highlight to others her predicament? People must as a consequence, have been aware of her need for a seat, it is just selfishness on their part!

I used to commute from Brighton to London when I was pregnant in 2007 and twice had to stand for the distance when I was heavily pregnant. Within London I would be mostly using the underground in and around 'Westminster' and I have to say people nearly always offered me seats. One time, at the St. James's Park stop, no one bothered and a lady looked me up and down, shouted to the whole carriage, 'There is a heavily pregnant lady standing here is nobody going to offer her a seat?'. TBF three men stood up.

I did used to work late so I could return on the 7.45 train to Brighton which was pretty empty but some people do need to get home straight away for other numerous reasons. It is wrong to expect women, yet again, to forgo being a 'priority' in these particular circumstances because it is inconvenient to society. As in, it is yet another example where women are expected to be 'selfless'.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 11/05/2014 08:02

"I'm not well" could mean anything
Usually it means the person is unwell.
I think, in comparison to " I need to sit down" it's likely to have a more sympathetic response.

Of course there's no excuse for verbal abuse.

And it's difficult for some ppl to ask for a seat. But the op is describing a seriously unwell DW here who was in danger of fractures if she fell and unable to be held up because of her wound. It would definitely have been nice for her if he could have mustered the courage to secure her a seat if that journey was absolutely unavoidable.

Tbh, I'm mortified that other passengers didn't offer OP's DW a seat, given that she must have looked so frail, or the pregnant woman a seat for that matter. It's such a shame.

JadedAngel · 11/05/2014 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GreatAuntDinah · 11/05/2014 08:57

I can see the problem with a disability badge but not a priority card that can be produced if needed. Like I said upthread, it works perfectly well as a system elsewhere.

BeyondRepair · 11/05/2014 10:48

www.streathamguardian.co.uk/news/2100702.pregnant_women_to_be_given_priority_on_tube/

Unless these pictures have changed its very clear who the priority seats are aimed at.

The ops husband didn't see fit to find her a seat in spite of her illnesses and post op issues and let her stand in definalty....and put her through two jerky stops,,,and starts....putting her at risk of a fall....

There was NO WAY I would have been able to stand two weeks post op. My husband or myself would have got me a seat. I would have said " I am sorry to ask but would it be possible to have a seat I have just had an operation"!

the pregnant lady headed for a seat clearly label for her she saw a well woman^ going for it.

Ops wife clearly didn't convey the message that she was ill or post op, and pregnant lady rants about a well person sitting in a priority seat with a large picture of a pregnant woman on it. Put there because selfish people take priority seats.

I would have simply said to pregnant lady " I am so sorry, I have just had an operation..." Then I would have said to my fellow passengers, individually and not ranting..." would you mind giving her a seat, I have had an operation and she is in need!"

I have done similar many many times!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 11/05/2014 10:53

Why didn't the pregnant lady approach some other passengers rather than those in the priority seats? It doesn't make sense to target those.

I really dislike seeing some of the posts on this thread. A pregnant woman is not more 'in need' than anybody else who has issues that mean they need to sit down/are unwell. The aggressiveness isn't going to make people want to be more considerate; quite the opposite really and it's not as if consideration is in large supply.

The OP's role was to support his wife. If he hadn't been there then she would have had to secure a seat for herself - as would the pregnant lady. It's nice for OP's wife that he was with her but it wasn't his job to secure another seat for the pregnant lady and she wasn't mute, she could have done that for herself. Swap OP for a woman friend and see how that stacks up in having to be chivalrous to other passengers.

What is it with the disbelief at what OP says? Is it because he's a MAN by any chance?

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