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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

992 replies

dancersdad · 09/05/2014 19:34

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about? Confused

OP posts:
turgiday · 10/05/2014 22:50

Brian you could probably avoid the rush hour if you set off at 5.30am or 6am, for a 9.30am appointment, and then wait in the hospital for your appointment.

rootypig · 10/05/2014 22:51

Ok I give up. You lot insist that the only possible way for OP's very frail DW to live her life was to be on the tube in rush hour. I think really this is probably a bit untrue. hey ho. I need sleep.

night all

thanks for the moral support Beyond Grin

BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 22:51

Actually the trains don't run early enough from here to avoid rush hour. So if we got a cab from here we'd be looking at around £120, each way, twice a week. But hey, just because some people set off early eh Wink

turgiday · 10/05/2014 22:53

rootypig - We don't know that. We are disagreeing with your certainity that she could avoid being on the tube in rush hour.

turgiday · 10/05/2014 22:54

And as for the idea of getting disabled people to wear badges saying they are disabled Hmm

TequilaMockingbirdy · 10/05/2014 22:57

rooty despite you and other people seemingly thinking so, you can't speak for all people with disabilities. The day disabled people feel unable to use public transport is the day we should be very very ashamed of ourselves.

BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 22:58

Do you really think the OP is so stupid they couldn't think about the possibility of a taxi or trying to change appointment times? The solutions you are offering are something that would occur to a 10 year old. So no I dont think you are helping. I think you are at best being extremely patronising.

And absolutely yes to this.

rootypig · 10/05/2014 22:59

Brian you must live somewhere more reasonable, like zone 2!

Ok yes that does sound tough and I can see you have little alternative. But I think you're taking my argument much further than I meant it. I only meant, very nicely, that it sounded like the OP's DW on this particular day was too unwell to be on the tube. You concede, presumably, that at some point people are too unwell to manage the tube? steps and escalators and long corridors and busy trains?

I do think public transport should be accessible to all and that OP's DW of course should have been given a seat. Just not in preference to pregnant woman

Original poster
dancersdad · 10/05/2014 22:59

I haven't mustered the courage to go through the whole thread yet, but just to make a few things clear:

We came down to London on the train for this one-off appointment. For the overground part of the journey we booked seats, you can't do that on the tube.
Trying to hold upright someone with a surgical incision along their midsection and bruised ribs isn't easy without hurting them. No, there is absolutely no way I would have felt comfortable letting DW go on her own. As far as I could tell the pregnant woman was alone but we did NOT gang up on her, DW calmly explained she was really sorry but she needed the seat. She did not use the word disability- neither of us would have thought to describe it as that. Perhaps wrongly. Neither of us saw the need to give a full medical history either.

The other woman was indeed rude when DW did not give up her seat and ranted about how she would expect another woman to understand the difficulties of pregnancy and show some consideration, but it seemed society had turned selfish and no one gave a damn. It was definitely directed at DW, despite a whole carriage of commuters failing to offer a seat.

I am NOT saying the pregnant woman should not have had a seat. Nor am I denying the others in the carriage should have offered her a seat, as surely at least one of them could have stood. What I AM saying is the pregnant woman had no right to lay into DW like she did.

OP posts:
BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 23:02

We don't live in london at all rooty. We live miles away. What is this zone 2 of which you speak? Wink Wish we did, life would be easier.

TequilaMockingbirdy · 10/05/2014 23:03

dancersdad you did nothing wrong at ALL so please don't think like you did. I really hope your wife is doing a bit better now. How did you get on at dd's school btw? they were awful

rootypig · 10/05/2014 23:03

Tequila I don't mean to speak for all people with disabilities - I've been repeatedly challenged by people who think I'm talking our of my arse because have no experience with the NHS / disability / being shit poor / cabs in London at rush hour / thinking / breathing. Only natural to explain that I do have experience of these things-??

BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 23:03

I do think public transport should be accessible to all and that OP's DW of course should have been given a seat. Just not in preference to pregnant woman

And again, absolutely not.

BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 23:04

I agree dancersdad, she didn't have the right to do that.

BrianTheMole · 10/05/2014 23:06

You concede, presumably, that at some point people are too unwell to manage the tube?
Sometimes people don't have an alternative.

rootypig · 10/05/2014 23:09

Ah yes but Brian I said upthread several times exactly why I think this and people are free to disagree - of course! - but this has no bearing on my thinking that DW shouldn't have been there, which is just straightforward concern for a frail / unwell person in a terribly bruising environment. The tube is not just about getting a seat (which others can give disabled people and should), it's about escalators and tunnels and heat and long walks and crowded platforms and I'm asking the OP to reconsider going through this again. I dunno, I think if I said this in a conversation with a friend it would be seen as a reasonable expression of concern, rather than an anti-access diatribe.

OP I agree that DW in no way warranted abuse and again, I hope that she is better Flowers

turgiday · 10/05/2014 23:12

rootypig - What do you think someone should do who is unwell and travelling down to London for a specialist hospital appointment? I do atke your point about how difficult taking the tube can be if you are unwell. But if you can't afford a lot of money for a taxi, what else can you do but take public transport?

slithytove · 10/05/2014 23:13

Not a single person suggested the wearing of a disabled persons badge.

BeyondRepair · 10/05/2014 23:14

Trying to hold upright someone with a surgical incision along their midsection and bruised ribs isn't easy without hurting them

I just don't understand why you didn't make more effort to get her a seat as soon as you got on the tube, either your situation was as bad as described or not...you seem pretty up on surgical incisions, and yet prepared to simply let her stand..the person who left the priority seat may not have left it, your fragile poor sick wife with her inscions would have been left to stand for the whole journey?

slithytove · 10/05/2014 23:16

Dancersdad I don't think you were in the wrong.

I think this thread has thrown up some good suggestions about how to manage this sort of thing in the future, taking into account how shitty the rest of society can be at times.

Also I think there were some good suggestions about offering help to the pregnant lady no matter how unreasonable she was being - often being the bigger person in these situations can take the wind out of ones sails.

I really hope your DW is doing ok.

slithytove · 10/05/2014 23:18

I do agree that more immediate action in terms of boarding the tube and requesting any seat would have been wise in light of your DW's ailments. I know it's not always easy. But if I'm honest I really don't think she should have been standing on the tube at all. I would have requested help I think.

TequilaMockingbirdy · 10/05/2014 23:19

Beyond

Stop blaming the OP. I'm sure us women can speak for ourselves, y'know, like the wife could have? She simply took her opportunity for some slight comfort when a seat became available.

katmat3 · 10/05/2014 23:22

I have seen that million times in the trains ,on the buses...Well,I am pregnant and I was twice pregnant before.I would never ever ask for a seat if I am not in a real need of it but also,when you ask someone for something there are two answers you can get ---yes or no. You don't need to be explaining your DW health history on the train.What you said it was more then enough. IMO pregnant lady was very rude...to react in such a poor manor ,she should just go and ask someone else instead arguing and making herself looking like a fool.At least I would do that.
I always stand up to elderly or less able because as long as I can I will and I hope I will be treated in the same way in my late pregnancy or when I am old.
Don't feel bad or quilty...You could have come across even worse abuse then that...

KatieKaye · 10/05/2014 23:32

Hi dancersdad - I hope you and DW don't encounter another rude person like this if you ever have to go back to London for medical appointments.

As for people suggesting in a less than helpful manner that you should organise your medical appointments and travel arrangements to avoid rush hour - I'm sure you know as well as I do that this often is not possible. You did what you had to do in order to get to the appointment, so don't let them make you feel guilty about the choices you had to make.

LittleBearPad · 10/05/2014 23:41

Why didn't you ask someone for a seat as soon as you got on? If your wife is as ill as you say standing for two stops was unnecessary and dangerous.

Why wait for a priority seat. Just ask someone to move. Many people will if asked directly.

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