To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

[dancersdad]

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about?

Thank you for clarifying Tequila.

Does it have to be a long term thing or can one be temporarily disabled? E.g. With pgp, broken bones etc.

I really hope I'm not causing offence as I have not heard of people with illnesses being classed as disabled before - this is my ignorance.

It is usually seen as something that has a negative and fairly significant impact on your day to day life, for at least a year. Obviously when you talk about chronic illness, people may have times where they are fairly well e.g. with multiple sclerosis. But there are also many chronic invisible disabilities or illnesses, where people never have periods of being okay e.g. major heart problems.

Thank you for clarifying turgid

No, broken bones would not normally be counted as a disability, as it is usually short term. Obviously if you broke your back or neck, this may be different.

It's not offensive at all slithy, in fact your question is one I asked myself a while ago!

I'm not sure about your second question, I'm sure someone more knowledgable will come alog

alog? Hopefully along haha

STOP SAYING THEY COULD HAVE GOT A TAXI IN RUSH HOUR ON A FRIDAY. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO CATCH A TAXI IN RUSH HOUR LONDON?? TRAFFIC IS GRIDLOCKED AND IT WOULD COST ABOUT £50 AND TAKE THREE TIMES AS LONG TO GET ANYWHERE YOU COULDN'T WALK TO!!

I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS.

www.standard.co.uk/news/make-my-day--offer-a-pregnant-lady-your-tube-seat-6760095.html

Once inside, it doesn't seem to matter where I stand; 90 per cent of the time I am not offered a seat.

Not even one of the several in each carriage marked with a blue sticker showing a woman with a bump (which are invariably occupied by younger, fitter Londoners than me).

Friends lucky enough to avoid crush hour don't understand. "Why don't you just ask for a seat?" they say, innocent of how great a breach of Tube etiquette that would be.

Earlier in my pregnancy I reckoned I'd start requesting seats at around seven months. Now I realise I'd have to be in second-stage labour before most Victoria line passengers would show a flicker of acknowledgement.

So I couldn't have been less surprised by yesterday's London Assembly report revealing that Londoners are now so crammed on the Underground they've started behaving like "selfish animals".

So invisible disabilities that are a result of illness commonly include major heart problems that may make walking or any physical task difficult, neurological long term illnesses like multiple sclerosis which can cause blindness, unable to walk, etc. Also illnesses that affect your lungs and make you breathless e.g. COPD. Illnesses that cause ongoing severe chronic pain, particularly where it is poorly controlled.

Some chronic illnesses you can see. But many someone may simply look unfit e.g. if they are out of breath walking along, or grumpy e.g. if they are in a lot of pain. Indeed I know young people with heart or lung problems are often embarassed at being out of breath walking along, because of the judgements people wrongly make.

Among other health problems, which we were in London for a specialist appointment concerning, DW is in the middle of her second ED relapse in three years. She had abdominal surgery recently she's still recovering from and combined with low blood pressure fainting on a crowded tube is a real possibility. Because she's so underweight it's very likely that if she had fallen she would have broken something because her bones are more vulnerable- this has happened before.

Pregnancy lasts for 9 months, so no, would not usually be counted as a disability. Obviously you can develop illnesses as a result of pregnancy that may last longer than a year, and would be counted as a disability.

TheSlag

You made that crystal clear

I did not say the OP's DW should have been in a cab because she has "a disability". I said it because she sounds seriously unwell. This is just. common. sense. Cab, ambulance, travelling at a different time, asking the hospital for a different appointment time, yes yes yes, whatever was appropriate. Post abdominal surgery with an advanced ED and bones so brittle they may break - regardless of whether a seat is available or not, from concern and compassion, I urge the OP and DW to find easier ways to travel.

I don't apply the same logic to the pregnant woman, Brian, as she is not so unwell as OP's DW, presumably, but if she were and here asking I would also suggest alternatives.

Rootypig you said it better than me.

rootypig - I suspect you have had little to do with the NHS. The woman in the OP would not be entitled to an ambulance. If you want to change your appointment time, it often seems to mean waiting extra months for an alternative. Some consultants for specialist help do all their appointments first thing e.g. before 10 am, and then spend the rest of their time on the wards.

As said upthread, a taxi in London during rush hour can cost £50.

Maybe trust that someone as ill as the woman in question would not travel during the rush hour if she had a choice. People with illnesses or disabilities are not stupid. They won't put themselves through travelling on a rush hour tube if they have a real choice.

So is the lady disabled and classified so by the council or not, I thought she was?

Not that it matters she still needed a seat..

Councils no longer keep a list of registered disabled people.

They won't put themselves through travelling on a rush hour tube if they have a real choice

Not if they know and realise what rush hour entails.

I was on a normal train a few months ago and it was shocking, over crowded no seats, no air ( normal train) I had forgotton how bad it was.

I suspect they didnt realise or had forgotton how awful it is.

Thanks Jones

It's important, I feel.

No to issue the badge.

I have plenty to do with the NHS, more than I would care to, and I have plenty of experience of London. I am giving the OP well meant advice, as someone with a disability, about navigating life in a gentler way. I simply do not accept that being on the tube in rush hour was the only place in the universe the OP's DW could have been. I just don't.

As a poor person, with a disability, who has been pregnant with a disability in London on the tube (since you are questioning the experience from which I speak)

Shame on the other 20/30 seated people. It's a Shame they let you all go through that.

As a poor person, with a disability, who has been pregnant with a disability in London on the tube (since you are questioning the experience from which I speak)

But is she disabled or not?

Everyone is talking about her hidden disability...

rootypig - Then you should know better. I had to see a specialist regularly. I could only have an appointment before 10 am as she spent the rest of the time on the wards. If I refused to see her before 10am, then I would not have seen anyone.

She wouldn't be entitled to an ambulance rooty. Nor would my dh. Taxis are very expensive in London, you can easily end up paying £40 or £50 in rush hour. Common sense says we can't afford that, especially as we travel a couple of times a week. Changing appointment times, well the hospitals do try, but more often than not you have to take what you're given. Theres a lot of people in the same position. Sometimes there are not easier ways to travel. Unless you have a big bank balance. Generally when people are this unwell, then they are not working. Funds are limited. I gather you haven't had to go through this yourself. Otherwise you would know its not that simple. Lucky you.