To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

[dancersdad]

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about?

SB she has got an eating disorder, which has led to many other problems including surgery. You and others read it as Ehlers

Maybe you would beyond My dh wouldn't do that. Too proud, esp if he were faced with a carriage that won't move, more likely if his disabilities are hidden. He would take an empty seat gratefully though. Maybe the op felt the same way.
And anyway, by the same token, surely the pg woman could have done that too. Seeing as her disability is more apparent.

Sounds shitty, whichever it is.

And how long does it take to fall or have a nasty knock Doctrine?

When its happened to me, a fraction of a second.

It's not incredible that a pgnant woman could be rude. we've all seen jerry springer
But I'm simply not convinced there was a "string of abuse" in this case.

The op is suggesting that the pregnant woman believed that she, beccause of her pregnancy, had priority for seating over a woman who was mentally and physically ill and recovering from surgery.

The pregnant woman didn't know the DW was unwell/ recovering from surgery. She was only ever told that she needed the seat. Any number of ppl might think they need a seat.
I often feel I need a sit down after a long day at work/ shopping.
The pregnant woman is being accused of MN style "
Entitlement" because of her pregnancy. And there's no evidence from the op that this was the case.
She might well have been rude - that's not nice. That is not reasonable.
But I can't see she is guilty of what the op is accusing her of.

Here's a tube traveller truly worthy of people's ire!

Yes I understand that Brian my mother is also fiercely independent or tries to be, however knowing the hideous consequences of her falling, I would implore people to move.

Literally a case of pride coming before a fall

In fact I have been caught most of the time out with her..between someone who does not want other people to know she has issues and people needing to be aware of this person who could topple at any moment as they roughly push past.

at squoosh

she looks preggers though and is holding her stomach.

Beyond at the end of the day the OP and his wife noticed all the seats were taken and had to stand. When the person in the priority seat got off, she probably sighed in relief and decided to take opportunity of this. Then got a torrent of abuse for it.

I do think its a shame to pit someone with disabilities against a pregnant woman (who might or might not have disabilities :-) ) . I actually hate this. I see it with who gets the parking space, who gets the buggy space, etc etc. The fact is pregnant women/those with young kids, those with disabilities and elderly people often seem to be arguing over these things while a load of able bodied men people sit talking on their phones.

TBH I agree with the poster who said the OP should have taken a cab. Not because of any rights or wrongs but because, much as I personally love the Tube, its a shit place to be if you are anything other than 100% able bodied and capable of defending yourself with your elbows in a bare knuckle wrestling match

And thats fine if your mother would accept that. My dh wouldn't. And I have to respect his wishes. He doesn't want to be seen as different. In actual fact he probably would have got up for the pg woman out of embarrassment. But it would be extremely unlikely that her needs trump his.

It sounds grim, both women clearly needed to sit down, it sounds as if your DW looks frail, and frankly, if anyone is saying someone NEEDS to sit down it is a shame hat fit people don't just show some manners and stand up.

Your DW and the pg woman shouldn't have had to be in competition with each other - the pg woman should have asked other passengers for a seat.

The other day, standing on a bus and not particularly needing to sit down, I yawned and a young Italian (?) man leapt to his feet and gave me his seat. I often stand up for men or women older than me and pg women younger. This is how it should be, and makes everyone's day nicer.

Sorry you had such a bad experience.

she probably sighed in relief and decided to take opportunity of this. Then got a torrent of abuse for it

Yes and pregnant lady also sees empty seat probably sighs, its a priority seat too and misses it by a nano second..and assumes a fit and healthy person is getting into it.

What exchange has happened in the interim is the key part here, because then she gets upset.

TBH I agree with the poster who said the OP should have taken a cab. Not because of any rights or wrongs but because, much as I personally love the Tube, its a shit place to be if you are anything other than 100% able bodied and capable of defending yourself with your elbows in a bare knuckle wrestling match

Only if you apply that principle to the pg woman also. Do you?

I don't have much choice because I cant let her fall, the consequences are too great.

Yes and pregnant lady also sees empty seat probably sighs, its a priority seat too and misses it by a nano second..and assumes a fit and healthy person is getting into it

But the pregnant woman wouldn't accept the OP's 'I need this seat too'. I can understand she may have been stressed and in pain, but at the end of the day she stepped on a presumably full train and she should have realised that the seats could quite possibly be taken by those who need them. Instead she chose to berate the person who seated herself in them. Which is bang out of order whichever way you chose to look at it.

Yeah and it's an absolutely bloody travesty that both parties in need of those priority seats had to have an argument because some lazy unkind fucks couldn't lift their arses up and offer their own seat. It grates me.

she should have realised that the seats could quite possibly be taken by those who need them

Yes like all the other commuters who desperately needed their seats more than the heavily preg lady and the lady post op, under weight and with fragile bones and other issues...

Yeah and it's an absolutely bloody travesty that both parties in need of those priority seats had to have an argument because some lazy unkind fucks couldn't lift their arses up and offer their own seat. It grates me

Oh finally, some ire directed at the others ...

I've had 'ire' directed at those from the beginning if you'd like to read, but in this situation we cannot escape the fact the PG woman was wrong to continue to question the DW.

sigyn - How many times? Not everyone can just afford to take a cab. For plenty of us, paying for public transport is a bloody stretch.

I think a lot of people on here, including the OP, have been highly critical of the ignorant toe rags who wouldn't offer their seats. But their appalling behaviour does not mean that the pregnant woman was right to start having a go at another woman who also needed a priority seat and just happened to get to it first. She was behaving as if she trumped an ill woman, regardless of what else was going on with the other passengers.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what makes someone classed as disabled? I know the obvious ones of course, but in this instance (recent surgery, eating disorder) is that classed as a disability?

Is having a disability the same as being less able then the norm?

A disability is any illness that impacts on day to day life, long term. The OP's wife has suffered with this for years so yes, I think it would be classed as a disability.

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