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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that pregnant women don't trump everybody else for a seat on the tube?

992 replies

dancersdad · 09/05/2014 19:34

I possibly need some perspective. DW and I were in London today, and unavoidably had to travel on the tube this evening in commuter rush hour. DW has a number of health issues that aren't physically visible, but definitely do impact upon her ability to stand on a crowded tube. When we got on at the start of our journey back the tube was packed with no free seats, so we both stood and I held onto DW as I was worried she was going to fall. The carriage was made up almost entirely of commuters. Two stops into our journey an elderly man got off leaving one of the priority seats free- the only free seat in the carriage. DW went to take the seat and was almost knocked onto the floor by a heavily pregnant woman who tried to slide into the seat alongside DW and beat her to it, as it was DW was already in the seat and the other woman stood up. She then told DW she was so sorry to ask her to move, but she was in a priority seat and as she was sure she knew, priority seats are reserved for those who really need them. DW told her that she had a reason for needing the priority seat too and refused to move when asked again. Cue a whole string of abuse about how no one has any manners nowadays, that she had asked DW to give up her seat for her because as a woman she would expect DW to understand that pregnancy can be hell, the least she could do would be to let her have the seat etc. I stepped in at this point and explained that DW really did need the seat, and loudly suggested to the rest of the carriage that I was sure someone else would be willing to give up a seat for her. Suddenly everyone else was deeply engrossed in their ipads, kindles etc, except for an elderly lady in the other priority seat who clearly needed it too, and offered her seat. The pregnant woman announced loudly that she couldn't possibly ask someone else who needed the seat to give it up, and it was a shame that some people (glaring at DW) had no respect for the priority system, which is in place to ensure those who really need a seat can get one. I pointed out again that DW had a genuine need for the seat too. Cue huffing, eye rolling, and lurching over DW whenever the train changed speed for the rest of her journey.

AIBU to think that although some pregnant women do need a seat on a tube, they shouldn't assume automatic priority over others also in need? There's no priority seat ranking system I don't know about? Confused

OP posts:
rootypig · 10/05/2014 10:59

It's not up to anyone else to decide whether OPs wife or the rude woman should have been on the train or not.

I think it's a fair part of the discussion, given the OP has asked for opinions and given his description of DW as recovering from major surgery.

By choosing pubic transport, she [pregnant woman] also chooses to take the risk that she might not get a seat

Absolutely, agreed.

Where the need is equal, as we can only assume it was in this case

This is where we disagree.

All of this said as a pregnant woman I gave up my seat for elderly people and people with disabilities Grin. I just think the principle should stand (no pun intended) because of the horror of miscarriage. Basically.

Anyway my toddler has just woken up from her nap so I have to go and do something. And have said enough!

OP I hope DW feels better - truly.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 10/05/2014 11:00

BumpNGrind Yes, if you feel that you need the seat. Pregnancy is a voluntary condition, and frankly if you're so heavily pregnant that you feel you can't travel safely on the Tube, it's probably time to start your maternity leave.

WooWooOwl · 10/05/2014 11:03

Having broken bones is pretty horrific too, and I think most people would reasonably choose horrific risk to someone else rather than horrific risk to their own loved one.

Rightly or wrongly, I know I would always put my own family first.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 10/05/2014 11:08

"Risk of miscarriage" from not getting a seat on the train? Really? Perhaps pregnant women should be confined to bed for the whole nine months, just in case.

Summerbreezing · 10/05/2014 11:15

Haven't read the whole thread (sorry) but the pregnant woman, after initially objecting to the OP's wife sitting on the seat, should have just backed off. She was told that the other passenger wasn't just hogging a seat she didn't need but did have a disability, so that should have been that. Yes, of course another passenger should have offered her a seat and that's really where the problem lay. People are incredibly rude and self centred on public transport nowadays and men are the worst. They so rarely stand up for anyone nowadays and will often race to grab a free seat before a pregnant woman gets to it. Likewise children and teenagers ... it never even seems to cross their minds to stand up and let an elderly or pregnant person have their seat.

rootypig · 10/05/2014 11:16

ok Schnitzel I accept it sounds melodramatic but I think in the difficult moral questions - I agree that both people here had a very great need to sit down - you end up differentiating on unlikely but serious outcomes.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 10/05/2014 11:41

You can never directly compare a pregnant woman to a person with a disability. Some poeople with disabilities could safely but uncomfortably manage to stand abd equally, some women fly through pregnancy feeling mostly fine.

KatieKaye · 10/05/2014 12:07

rooty you still haven't said how an ill person who urgently needs to get to a medical appointment should get there if they can't afford a taxi. It's not as simple as re-organising things because sometimes the need to attend hospital etc overrides everything else. Surely you must see that?

The pregnant woman in question did not say she had any additional need over and above her pregnancy that put her at exceptionally high risk from not getting a seat. And while there is a risk of a fall on a moving tube, it's not like a bus that might slam on the brakes when a car cuts in front of it. there's probably as great a risk from being jostled by the rush hour crowds for the pregnant woman.

It may be a question of morals - or just down to good manners.
Person 1: Excuse me, can I have this seat? I'm pregnant.
Person 2: I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I need the seat as I'm ill/recovering from major surgery etc.
Person 1: But I need the seat more than you! So give it to me.

Because that is what the pregnant woman was effectively saying. Refusing to accept that DW had a valid reason that was just as good as her own for needing the seat was v unreasonable.

Apart from the elderly lady, nobody else offered their seat even when directly appealed to. Might be because they were all rude and inconsiderate but might be because at least some of them thought the way pregnant woman had behaved was pretty bad. TBH, from OPs post she came over as a bit of a bully to DW, so I'm glad OP was there to stand up for her.

KoalaDownUnder · 10/05/2014 12:09

I thought the reason for giving pregnant women a seat is that there is a risk of injury to the unborn baby if she falls for any reason (because she is jostled, or the tube comes to an emergency stop, or whatever).

A pregnant woman is two lives, effectively, one of which is extra vulnerable because it is still developing.

So yes, I do think a heavily pregnant woman travelling by herself should take priority over a non-pregnant woman accompanied by an able-bodied man.

brokenhearted55a · 10/05/2014 12:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatieKaye · 10/05/2014 12:29

We don't know the pregnant woman was alone. She could have been with a friend or partner who was not taking part in the situation.

Oh, and talk of "moving" DW like she is an inanimate object is pretty insulting to disabled people. Plus, she moved into the seat entirely of her own volition, nothing to do with OP, so your last sentence is based on a total misunderstanding of the situation.

ICanSeeTheSun · 10/05/2014 12:48

I blame the tube bosses.

They should put more tubes on during busy periods. Plus have a 2 tier ticket. Standing prices should be cheaper than sitting.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 10/05/2014 12:54

Ican, I assume you are joking?

the tube system is pretty much at capacity during rush hour and people don't buy a ticket for a specific time so how would two tier pricing help or be enforced?

Plus most tickets are oyster now.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 10/05/2014 12:58

You couldn't enforce a two tier ticket system on the tube. Plus, yes it's all oyster.

ICanSeeTheSun · 10/05/2014 13:01

Not joking.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 10/05/2014 13:01

How would you police it?

They don't even police the no alcohol rule.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 10/05/2014 13:03

Do you travel regularly by tube, Ican?

Oldraver · 10/05/2014 13:17

I would of just told the pg woman that her pg woould be over in a few months...your wifes issues will be with her for life

ICanSeeTheSun · 10/05/2014 13:19

No never been to london.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 10/05/2014 13:20

Sorry, but you can tell.

The tube can be a nightmare and anyone in their right mind will avoid rush hour at all costs.

turgiday · 10/05/2014 13:23

Except many disabled people also work. We have no choice but to use public transport during peak times.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/05/2014 13:24

I'm still utterly confused at how we know she was not also disabled.

Disability doesn't magically disappear when you get pregnant, nor is it a perfect contraceptive.

sarinka · 10/05/2014 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

turgiday · 10/05/2014 13:35

YANBU Disabled people matter too. Both needed a seat. It really is first come, first served.

KoalaDownUnder · 10/05/2014 13:37

Oldraver - What's that got to do with anything?

The OP's wife's health issues may or may not be with her 'for life'. That's not going to make the pregnant woman feel any differently about them both needing a seat now.