to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

Lemis you do know that with Help to Buy you have to pay the interest free deposit back after 5 years? It isn't free money (unless you're a bank). It's basically subprime lending - the lender's risk is underwritten by the taxpayer (ie you), but the buyer's risk isn't

Raskova- to answer your question, no, we live about 100 miles from my parents, and about 150 from dhs mother (fil died years back.) Like you, I work full time. Our kids are teenagers now but when they were little, we paid for childcare. I'm not saying it was easy (it wiped out the equivalent as my earnings for a couple of years with two at nursery) but tbh I'd never have expected my parents to provide childcare even if they did live nearby. Way too big a restriction on their life IMO. I think when you've raised your own children you deserve the pleasure of grandkids without the pressure! As for nights out, we always paid local teenagers to babysit, although my parents were very good and would come for the weekend if we had a major event on like a wedding.

I don't think caring close families are synonymous with living within a few miles tbh. It's like with friendships... You have your social circle in the immediate area you live, but you can also have really strong friendships from all phases of your life all over the place. I suspect that in some ways (as I showed in earlier posts) having people move around and not live lifelong in the same town actually builds a sense of community in many ways, because you're forced to look outwards rather than just rely on your immediate family. As an example: I helped set up a babysitting circle in the village we lived in (so we could exchange tokens for babysitting to save having to pay) and it was great, and a whole group of us got to know eachother whereas we might not previously have had any reason to. Whereas the young mums who'd lived in the village their whole life weren't interested - if granny or auntie couldn't babysit then they just wouldn't go out!!

I guess it takes more effort in some ways but I think life can be far more enriching to experience different parts of the country. So far we've done city life, rural, and for most of the children's lives, a large town... Who knows what's next?

Some peoples naivety on here is astounding.

Just because I can't afford a house it doesn't mean I don't work hard! I work in the care industry in a very demanding job that requires endless patience, I find it very rewarding but it does pay below average. I have a friend in it that earns 4 times what I do and he happy admits his job is easy in comparison.

Dh left a job he hated a couple of years ago and all the money we had saved previously went to help him out, not that it was a lot and was only a tiny fraction of a deposit needed.

Yes we got married and spent about 2.5k inc the honeymoon but lots of that was from parents. I'm sure someone will turn around and say they did theirs for 25 pounds but I've been to pretty standard weddings that cost almost ten times mine.

Yes I have a dishwasher, it cost 35 pounds second hand and has lasted 4+ years and to be honest I've probably saved money on it as have a water meter.

I never said I wanted a 4 bed it was just for comparison I just want an extra bedroom and the security of not being made homeless in a month totally out of my control.

Yes 15k gifted is nice, but it comes with ties only on places they approve of. I don't want a handout from anyone, I want to support myself.

Lesmis/train

Isn't help to buy where you get 20 per cent off but have to pay 20 per cent of current value back when you sell or in ten years time? And 5 per cent is interest free but you have to pay it back quickly?

I'm not sure it's much of a deal

I think the point is that almost everyone (apart from a few baby boomers who bought houses in the 1970s/early 80s) is in the same position. Being unable to buy a house in London is not unique to the younger generation. It has always been very difficult. The OP is no worse of than the rest of the population (young or old) who live outside of London. I have little sympathy.

Also I don't live anywhere near London, its close to an hour on the train!

How much more would a 2 bed flat be rentwise?

I don't like the sound of the money coming with ties - meaning they have to approve of the property. We had similar controlling behaviour from the inlaws (long story) and we walked away from the offer they made.

I am a similar age to you, early 30's. I was very lucky in that I met my husband when were were young. We scrimped and saved, had no tv or mobiles or internet etc, shared one car, married on a very strict budget, etc etc blah blah (yawn, I know) and bought our house when we were 23. We now have 3 children and I am in a position where I can step out of work and retrain for a new career. I think that is how many people do it - getting money behind them from they first start work. Getting married in your 30's with no savings behind you and no home is of course going to be more difficult. If your dh has recently started a business then surely this will also weaken your position in applying for a mortgage. You made different decisions to us and so are on a different path, however I don't think society is to blame.

Agree with missduke- you don't want money that comes with strings attached. Better to do without but live life on your own terms. I mean who as an adult seriously wants their parents to have to approve where they're going to live and work. Night mare!

There is also some misconception on here though about some of us who have posted about expectations these days. My point when I posted earlier about how I could see (as a w/c northerner) how expectationa had changed is not just about lifestyle in terms of diswashers and coffee. It is about property ownership at all.

These days it is treated as a basic expectation that you will buy a house. But a quick google suggests that times have indeed changed. I just googled the rates of owner occupied households. In 1918 this figure stood at 23%. By 1971 it was 50%. In 2012 it was 66.7%.

I am not saying that anyone should be held back by a class system or that you shouldn't want the best you can do or get. But this idea that everyone 'has' to own property and that it is a new obstacle for this current generation is clearly not true. We have obviously moved on as a society since 1918, but we are not talking many generations ago that hardly anyone owned their own property.

Interestingly, in Germany, the owner occupier rates are 53.3% for 2012. I have german friends who tell mw that all their friends (30's and 40's) rent but consider themselves to have a good standard of living. The legacy of the Thatcher years here seems to be that we consider property ownership to be the be all and end all. I'm not saying it isn't most peoples ideal, but it isn't the only way to live.

Lauranda
Lots of people on here also made helpful suggestions...
But I actually find the post you made insightful to your attitude, you seem to just look at the negative.

Bit of a drip feed about the money as well.

Whatever5, this issue isn't solely applicable to London. It's much worse in London but still bad everywhere else. I said earlier that my mum bought a house 15 years ago for 60k. That's worth approx 200k now, maybe more. I'm almost the age she wS then and I'm only earning what she was then. There's no way I could afford a mortgage of that size. She did it on her own too.

House prices have exploded, wages have not.

Totally agree about victim mode, I've lived in third world countries and I know how lucky we are in many many ways so I to try and get on with life, but it is gutting to see the growing inequality in the UK.

kukeslala the "work harder" comments really annoyed me tbh.

Moving back home just isn't an option, long term mental therapy would cancel out costs.

Dh and I can't move far as his biz is in the area and I don't have a car so need to be able to walk or bus to work so limited in that respect.

I understand tenants in Germany have many more rights than those in the UK - I suspect it's an apples and oranges comparison.

But there lies the crux, if 50% of homes were owner occupied in 1971 and 66.7% are owner occupied in 2012 then it isn't a 'growing inequality' is it? Our expectation as a whole have genuinely shifted.

Inequality can not simply be measured just by one statistics.

Daily thre are reports out about the haves and have nots. Of course it was also very unequal in 1900

Thats fair enough Phineyj but just looking at our own countries stats it surely means that more of us own our properties now than previous generations if you compare 1971 to now?

On a basic level, you can't run an economy by selling the same houses to each other over and over again at increasing prices, whilst paying successive generations the same or even less in real (inflation-adjusted) wages.

House prices have nearly tripled since 2000 whilst the median wage has stagnated since 2001 and fallen in real terms since 2008. The yawning gap between these has been enabled by credit expansion by the banks, financed and underwritten by you the taxpayer at your (current and future) expense. The more expensive houses are compared to wages, the more it will collectively cost you the taxpayer in money that would otherwise have gone to support pensions, disabled children, young people's education, building new schools and roads, investing in companies, improving the health service, funding medical research, raising our living standards, vaccination programmes, museums, libraries, and so on.

Are you all quite happy that this is sustainable?

So sorry Janey, missed your reply!

I agree 100 per cent with what you say re moving away. I couldn't imagine my life if I'd stayed. DDs grandparents are all late 40s/early 50s so couldn't provide workable cover for working. I again agree grandparents are there for pleasure and to help out when needed if they can. My DD sees her grandparents because I want her to have a relationship not because I need a break etc.

I'd actually love to get a full consensus of whether parents nearby help!

YANBU renting is extortionate. Buying is impossible for many.

No, inequality goes way further. But the whole point of your initial op seemed to be about the inequalities in house buying ie it was easier for previous generations. But the fact remains that more of us are doing it now so either it was no easier then or (as I was trying to point out) social attitudes to home ownership have indeed changed. That was the whole point I was making. It is that expectation that you HAVE to own property these days that didn't exist before.

Fan people are buying more because the moneyh supply has increased hugely, aka debt.

You now have people signing up for a mortgage for 40 years, people remortgaging to buy property and stupid short term Ill thought out schemes like help to buy, right to buy and shared ownership.

Totally agree. And that is my point. It is a false economy. Very few of us really own our houses. The bank does. Which brings me neatly back to my point of this expectation we have that we have the 'right' to expect to own property. Most of us wouldn't if we weren't operating in some inflated circle of pretend cash. My whole point is that it is that expectation we have that is our generations downfall. We expect to have things that my grandmother never did. It isn't that our generation is being stitched up, we have higher wants and expectations.