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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

292 replies

stilllivingbythesea14 · 02/05/2014 22:33

I know I phrased that clumsily but I know a few Christians. They are nice people but very devout and pretty much always have been.

They are all white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money, nice jobs, one SAHM.

It must be easier to have faith in God if you've had a nice life? Hmm

I'd like to believe but I'm not sure I can.

OP posts:
Appletini · 03/05/2014 11:59

I'm disappointed that so many people have felt the need to jump on the OP. If someone has a misconception why not take the opportunity to open their eyes?

I think the tricky thing about suffering is that it's shit. I think many people are comfortable with the abstract idea that life isn't perfect and tends to involve suffering; if it didn't what would we be like as humans? But the reality of suffering is that it's miserable, ugly and shit. So we can say we don't expect perfect lives, it's just the reality is that the imperfections are less bearable than we'd like them to be.

I personally believe it's important to engage with questions like these. I also think if someone has a certain perception of the church or religion or etc it's better to engage with them and not bite their heads off.

wowfudge · 03/05/2014 11:59

I used to envy my committed Christian DSis her life, but given the problems she went through being unhappy at work, the difficulties in buying a family home with her then new DH and then, worst of all, the awful experiences they had to have their children I realised that, in true Pollyanna style, you have to count your blessings. I am not religious btw.

AndyWarholsBanana · 03/05/2014 12:09

OP I'd seriously advise against posting anything in AIBU if you're feeling remotely fragile.
I'm not religious but one of the most inspirational people I've met was a Christian woman who gave up a very well paid job to become a chaplain in a prison where she had to work with murderers and sex offenders. She always spoke about everyone with compassion and said that an act could be inexcusable but not unforgivable.
I hope things get better for you soon Thanks

BumpNGrind · 03/05/2014 12:09

I'm surprised by how many people have jumped on the OP to say she was wrong or misguided. She posted an opinion, then lots of mumsnetters posted their opinions and then told the OP she was wrong, with only their anecdotal evidence to back them up.

There is quantative evidence from the last census (as I posted up thread) that in poorer, predominantly white areas, religious belief is lower so that OP wasn't being unreasonable to suppose that in more affluent, white areas there may be a higher number of people who do identify as Christian. That's not go say that this group of people are wrong, or that they haven't struggled, suffered of questioned their faith, I'm sure they all have at times.

I've been quite disappointed with the number of people who have seen it appropriate to post nasty comments.

BumpNGrind · 03/05/2014 12:10

Ps, my last post relates to those posters further up thread, not those giving a more objective and reasoned response.

FairPhyllis · 03/05/2014 12:22

You sound terribly naive OP.

I am a Christian and although I might appear to you to be a naice middle class white person I can assure you I have not had an easy life.

I know Christians in Britain who in church would also superficially look like they have had boring middle class lives. However they have struggled (and still struggle) with alcoholism, addiction, mental illness, chronic ill health and poverty. I know Christians who have had abusive childhoods, who have experienced the loss of children, who have grown up in dangerous places, who have witnessed murders in their own families. They just don't talk about these things with you until you know them very well.

You only have to look at someone like Katharine Welby to see that your life isn't automatically sorted if you are born into a churchgoing middle class family.

Perhaps your naice white middle class CU is a reflection of the fact you went to a naice white middle class university - did you ever think about that? Or that people don't spill their life stories to acquaintances?

turgiday · 03/05/2014 12:25

But it is true that in the UK in white disadvantaged neighbourhoods, people are less likely to be Christians.

Toadinthehole · 03/05/2014 12:44

I also think the OP lds getting a hard time. So she might have expressed herself a clumsily for some. So what- get over it.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 03/05/2014 13:16

No not thinking about life stories so much - general impression not just at university but generally. Still feeling a bit weird.

OP posts:
Theodorous · 03/05/2014 13:17

What bollocks. You have clearly never lived in Asia. The church is full every Sunday here in Qatar with Nelapki, Indian and Philipinno Christians, mainly very poor migrant workers. What a silly ill informed unworldly statement.

Theodorous · 03/05/2014 13:18

Nepali not Nelapki In car on phone

turgiday · 03/05/2014 13:19

Theo - Yes that is the case in other countries and in the UK amongst Black and Asian people. What she says does have some truth amongst white people in the UK. The census shows that this is the case.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 03/05/2014 13:22

Yes I have acknowledged I should have made it a bit clearer I was talking about UK based Christianity. Sorry about that.

OP posts:
plotmissinginaction · 03/05/2014 13:24

I really relate to much of what you have said here, I also ended to explore why I had lost my faith when those I studied with had not and in my case a lot of it was to do with different life experiences. I think it is totally possible for this truth to exist alongside the fact that there are of course many Christian people with complicated, difficult backgrounds.

turgiday · 03/05/2014 13:32

It was the case 100 years ago in places like the factories in Manchester, that the very poorest were less likely to be Christians.

I have lived in a very poor area and the local church was only attended by some elderly white people. My FIL used to live in a posh village, and their church used to be very busy on a Sunday - all white and more a mix of ages. Of course I have no idea how many were there for school places.

ohmymimi · 03/05/2014 13:33

My Mum was a devout, practising Christian. She was widowed twice, struggled on a pittance to bring me up, she suffered horribly in her last years. She was the best person I've ever known, unselfish, kind, charitable, hardworking, totally honest. She practised her faith in her everyday life, although it was severely tested, it never waivered. If all Christians were like her the world would truly be a better place. I'm an athiest, by the way.

madhairday · 03/05/2014 14:39

Hope you are ok OP. Thanks

Not sure about census data showing faith more prevalent in mc/richer areas in the UK. Is there a link? I think it's unlikely to be the case. It's well known census data is flawed in this kind of area in any case - people will often tick the c of e box for eg if they have some kind of nominal cc of e background, and that is possibly more likely in the areas we are talking about. Ticking c of e by no means shows evidence of actual faith - the data is skewed for this purpose.

MrWalletwithMothsonboard · 03/05/2014 14:41

I have come back to this thread to find Christian people still feeling "insulted", still having a go at the poor lady who originally posted. There is nothing wrong with her post in the first instance. OP I am praying for you and myself this day. Really, I cannot imagine Christ, who Christians are supposed to be trying to imitate would talk to this lady in such a hurtful way!!!

ouryve · 03/05/2014 14:43

YABU. I've known plenty of have had pretty tough lives.

turgiday · 03/05/2014 14:45

Yes you might have ouryve. But it is true that in the UK amongst white people, poorer white people are less likely to be Christians.

BumpNGrind · 03/05/2014 15:42

I'm out pram shopping at the moment so cant post a link, but there is a bbc story about Maerdy (the place in Wales I made reference to) that you may be able to google.

gingerdodger · 03/05/2014 15:50

It is hard to generalise about Christians and their background and challenges and motivation of their faith (just as it is about other faiths or none). None of us can see into their hearts and what we know of their lives is just superficial often.

What I do know is that God is their for us all, rich, poor, healthy or unhealthy, happy or sad. The common part is that we believe God is calling us and we have to listen. It's not always easy and there are many obstacles on the way but also much fulfillment.

I am sorry you are having a difficult time OP,please be reassured that you are not alone and these times will test your faith, but can also strengthen it. You may need to find a faith community where you feel comfortable and happy.

PS Madhairday sorry you are unwell, hope you are better soon, your words are always wise.

turgiday · 03/05/2014 15:58

I don't believe that God is there for all of us. Many people have terrible things happen again and again in their life. Where was God then?

ZingWatermelon · 03/05/2014 16:13

turgiday

that is what a lot of people struggle to understand and find hard yo accept.

it's our choice to decide whether to trust God despite anything that might/have happen/ed
it's not easy.

Not long ago I felt I was just incapable of praying because something I had prayed for a long time didn't happen and won't happen. I was angry and sad and disappointed.
I was sulking and felt betrayed by Him.
I know I'm wrong, but I still feel "stung".

it's hard to trust when bad things happen or things don't go our way.

I have no answer as I'm also looking for one.

(I do find myself praying every now & then, which is a nice surprise. but it's going to take time to believe in the power of prayer again..)

madhairday · 03/05/2014 16:26

Thank you gingerdodger

It is difficult to see where God is sometimes isn't it. It's why my faith isn't one simplistic lines of God makes things better for Christians. No. Shit still happens. One of the most powerful books I have read about faith and suffering is a book called The Hiding Place by Corrie Tenboom who was a Dutch Christian who hid Jews from the Nazis and ended up at Ravensbruck. Her account of her faith being unshakeable in the absolute hideousness of the Holocaust goes so much deeper than any pat answer possibly can.

God doesn't always stop bad stuff but is in the bad stuff ime. It's deep in the pain I find God with me - Alongside and suffering with me. Profound, illogical yes, but a faith that works and works again.