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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

292 replies

stilllivingbythesea14 · 02/05/2014 22:33

I know I phrased that clumsily but I know a few Christians. They are nice people but very devout and pretty much always have been.

They are all white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money, nice jobs, one SAHM.

It must be easier to have faith in God if you've had a nice life? Hmm

I'd like to believe but I'm not sure I can.

OP posts:
plotmissinginaction · 04/05/2014 10:12

Thank you both.

Leaving the church and losing my faith was a very sad affair indeed. I did meet some lovely people in there too. I think I probably had an extreme experience that is all bound up in a very terrible period of my life. I don't think I could ever be part of a church again, too painful. I would love one day to have some kind of settled feeling of spirituality if that makes sense.

ancientbuchanan · 04/05/2014 15:04

We are all struggling, religious or atheists.

, Jesus talks about Hell hardly at all and says he came to save sinners, reserves his opprobrium for those who don't help, eg Dives or those who hurt children. Even then repentance is possible,think of his companions on the cross. If you are trying your best, God is understanding. Jesus didn't have things the way he wanted them always, he had to take the chalice that was given him and he was miserable about it, even though he accepted it.

Tbh, I'm glad for people who are always happy, but Job wasn't, Jesus wasn't, the psalmists were often despairing.

I can quite see why it would be a terrible experience, especially if family, social life or other reliance were based in that community.

But read Job, because that's kind of what they said to him. And he survived and God supported him in ways that would have been comprehensible to his peers in the end. ( he got more cows.).

I think you can give up on them, but don't give up on love. And if you don't give up on love, in times when you feel like it and times when you don't, that's all anyone can ask.

I can't recall of which mediaeval sinner it was said

Mercy I asked, I mercy found, betwixt the stirrup and the ground.

We don't know what happens, we can only trust and do our best, be sorry for our deliberate errors, and act with love.

Serendipity30 · 04/05/2014 15:47

Your OP question made me laugh, but here goes. Im a single parent, have grown up in a lower working class family, I dont think I have had a terrible life but I dont think its been a breeze either. Just because someone is middle classs and looks to have a naice life on the surface doesnt mean they have. I am a Christian so wondering how you reached your conclusions. Thats like me coming to a conclusion about Asian people or anyother type of people because i know one or two.

cloutiedumpling · 04/05/2014 21:30

You could have been describing the CU at the Uni I went to. Mind you, the Uni as a whole tended to attract white students from middle class families.

On paper I should have fitted in at the CU but I never felt that I did. So many of the people there seemed so intense and sure of their faith. I felt much more at home in a church that had a mix of ages and was more traditional. I've met more of a mix of people there.

I've not always been rock solid in my faith. I've had times when I've started off prayers by saying "I don't know if there's anyone out there but ...." . I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest like that. Feel free to come and join us on the prayer thread if you think it'd be helpful.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 04/05/2014 22:06

Thank you Flowers

I am feeling a bit calmer so am grateful for the prayers. It's given me some faith someone is listening x

Some of you are very kind Flowers

OP posts:
rocketjam · 04/05/2014 22:12

OP, I think it's probably because you are 'white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money' and you mostly hang out with people like yourself. If you'd travel a bit, or just take a trip to, I don't know, Stratford in East London, you would meet plenty of Christian people living in poverty, with little education, and who have had a very difficult upbringing.

Or better still, take a little trip to, say, Central America and you will see just how poor people are and they are still very devout and dedicated to their faith.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 04/05/2014 22:22

Oh, rocket, trust me, I've seen the underbelly of life and have lived it: while I won't pretend to have any kind of comparison with Central America, that is just the point: you tend to compare yourself with those around you.

So. One parent dead in early teens, another dead in late teens. Grandparents all dead. Brother who is a drug addict. I end up a prostitute, first on the streets then a bit more 'high class' Hmm and somehow manage to work severe depression into the bargain. Got pregnant by mistake, terminated the pregnancy (bitterly regret it now as it happens) Lots of instability, thought I had it settled, managed to unsettle it last week again, wanted to turn to my faith but couldn't.

So there a brief review, I suppose really the issue is I hate myself so assume God does too, but other people - well they're quite likeable, so God must love them. And logically I know that isn't the case.

So am grateful for kindness. It's helped. I'd really appreciate it now if people could stop laying into me as I'm sick of it as I've really said or done nothing to warrant it.

OP posts:
ancientbuchanan · 04/05/2014 22:31

Still,

You are obviously loving and lovable. so sorry life is shit some times/ all the time.

It never feels like one is loveable when one is depressed.

Been there, have theft shirt and scars.

Can you cherish yourself? Give yourself three things , one for now, one for soon, one for emergencies? Eg, I'll make myself s cup of tea now, in 20 mins I'll go and look at x on the tv, If life gets worse I'll use the bath stuff I have been saving, eat the chocolate in the cupboard....

And think about the things you can do? V v hard...

And see the Dr. Meds and CBT both really good ideas.
Faith helpful, as long as doesnt make you feel guilty and worse.

Not an expert, but feel free to pm me. Thinking of you.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 04/05/2014 22:34

Chocolate is always good although I have to be careful as I have a history of bingeing and purging. I have lately made huge steps towards embracing a healthy lifestyle though so fingers crossed. And thank you Flowers

OP posts:
cloutiedumpling · 04/05/2014 22:39

You've been through so much. If you don't mind me saying, I think it sounds as though you are being really hard on yourself. Could you give yourself permission to cut yourself a bit of slack?

You'll know the theory - that there is no hierarchy of sins, that God loves all of us despite our screw ups, and that he doesn't love your friends any more or less than he loves you.

Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby · 04/05/2014 22:55

Just wanted to send you prayers and hugs. If it helps I am a Christian but actually have a lot of self loathing issues that have nothing at all to do with that (I.e, no one has judged me, it has nothing to do with guilt for sin or anything), it has a whole lot to do with my mental health! The fact is sometimes it is hard to pray, but we can do so in simple ways. It sounds like you have rejected yourself. Please don't. It doesn't matter what you have done/who you are the door can be opened. Hey. Of it can for me It can for you. So know that after you have posted this, there will be a lot of people thinking of you and praying for you. In a way, that is a cry for help/prayer in itself. Please don't dive up n yourself, or think that somehow you are excluded.

I didn't think many people were particularly vile, and was surprised that a 10 page thread hadn't descended further! But some were rather blunt. But you are feeling rough, and I know that I avoid stuff that makes me feel 'upset' when I am fragile (which is every day for me... I read this thread very tentatively).

Thinking of you. And praying you get the strength and comfort you need.

madhairday · 04/05/2014 22:56

stillliving Thanks

Maybe just getting your feelings out on this thread are part of a small step forward for you.

You are loved. Utterly and unconditionally. I'm so sad to hear all you have been through. Like the lovely cloutie says, faith is messy and for messed up people. It's not black and white. And you are so welcome over on the prayer threads if you want to come and have a safe place.

thinking of you.

Original poster
stilllivingbythesea14 · 04/05/2014 22:56

Thank you so much Flowers

OP posts:
ComposHat · 04/05/2014 23:01

I am always suprised and disappointed when I discover otherwise rational, intelligent , well educated people are Jesus creepers.

I can't help thinking less of them when I realise they've totally suspended their critical faculties to buy into a world of woo woo and fairy stories.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/05/2014 23:03

I'm always surprised and disappointed when I discover otherwise rational, intelligent, well educated people are ignorant enough to confuse suspension of critical faculties with faith. Wink

Trying to argue someone out of having faith is like trying to persuade someone it's rationally wrong to like the taste of Stilton cheese on account it's rotten cow's milk. It's a logical argument, but utterly pointless too.

capsium · 04/05/2014 23:06

I think that attempting to relate circumstances to patterns of behaviour is a futile past time.

People are individuals and for as many you can find fit into a pattern, there are as many who could be regarded as exceptions.

I think this is a good thing, makes life interesting. I am a Christian, my life hasn't all been easy by no means. However I draw strength from my Faith. I like that it allows me not to worry, that it allows me not to judge others.

I honestly wouldn't know where to start, with judgment. Loving people, in spite of their faults, is easier, in a way, you don't have to attempt to find a reason all their behaviour. People are fallible. This, I find freeing.

ComposHat · 04/05/2014 23:10

Of course arguing with the devout is pointless, blind faith defies argument. It fascinates and mildly infuriates me that they are prepared to make vast assumptions and infer things in a way they wouldn't in the rest of their lives.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/05/2014 23:14

Such as?

I think some people are inclined to make vast assumptions anyway. That's the type of person they'd be, faith or not.

capsium · 04/05/2014 23:15

ComposHat I am laughing at the irony of your post! Grin

'They' ?! You do not know what any of us are prepared to do...Wink

capsium · 04/05/2014 23:17

Though of course I would agree it is pointless arguing...

madhairday · 04/05/2014 23:24

Not sure what vast assumptions these are. Faith isn't simply suspension of disbelief - my faith is based on experience and reason. One without the other would be meaningless and 'blind faith' would be without these factors and so meaningless as well.

Oh well, composhat - you may me disappointed in me, but I like your username because it reminds me of Sunday afternoons by the fire arguing with my brothers eating toast.

madhairday · 04/05/2014 23:26

Is a Jesus creeper like a Minecraft creeper? I'll inform ds, who seems to collect them.

Toadinthehole · 05/05/2014 01:56

compos hat

Bye then, unless you wish to make the obligatory reference to Father Christmas first. Or the sky-pixie. Your choice.

Gennz · 05/05/2014 02:03

I'm not a believer but I'm always surprised and disappointed when otherwise rational, intelligent, well educated people are ignorant enough to shit on other's belief systems.

If it's a comfort to them who am to argue. They have every right to believe what they want to believe, as do I.

Now if it comes to trying to use religious beliefs to lobby on issues that affect other non-believers (say gay marriage or abortion rights) now that I do have a problem with. But if it's just having faith, taking comfort from your religion - well, good luck to you. It's no business of mine.

ComposHat · 05/05/2014 03:43

Fair point gennz, my previous post was needlessly provocative

Such as erm... the existence of a single god who can intervene in the universe and that god being the judeo-christian god, (instead of say, any of the 100s of Hindu gods) a belief in the resurrection and the notion of the virgin birth.

Yes I know the majority of Christians don't believe in the literal truth of the bible, but I've never met any who deny the resurrection or the notion of Jesus as the son of

god or at least some supernatural element to their faith.

I can understand being curious about the possibility of an afterlife, at a push I can understand why people try and seek out some sort of meaning for their existence that has some sort of spiritual element to it. The idea that this world is all we have can be petrifying even to an atheist. But then I don't understand how people get from that stage to buying into a particular religion and a particular sect or branch of that religion.

But to say you've arrived at that through reason and experience mad? Really? What evidence? I am genuinely curious. Was your decision to follow the Christian faith based on an analysis of the rival truth claims of all the world's religions and all their many branches?