To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

Rainbunny, how do you find Seattle? Is it really as grey and drizzly as it's reputation? DH has been many times and says it's not as bad as ppl make out. It could be an option for us down the line.

Gosh what an opportunity, I would love to be in this situation. Best of luck making the right choice.

Watching this thread with interest. My work want to move me abroad, for 1-2 years. Last year, when the possibility was first raised, my OH was well up for it - he's freelance and works from home, but he was having a slow patch. But now he has more work coming in, and he's gone off the idea - just at the point where the prospect is becoming more realistic (the move could happen this summer).

I could go without him, and I would consider that as it's an excellent opportunity career-wise (and I would like to experience living in another culture). But we are trying for a baby, and being 15 hours away by plane is going to be a problem there. Would it be unfair to make him move?

It's not enough money, Cookie. Seems, too, to be all about him and what he wants. So he can go on his own.

You don't want to go.

So don't.

I say that as an American myself.

I moved here on my own 12 years ago and it's been hard work, and I really wanted to be here.

It's not the US - over to Asia. We are married though so he'd be on a spousal visa. The country in question is very flexible with visas. He'd get a spousal one which enables him to freelance or look for any job.

He's a writer, so he just needs a computer and can work anywhere.

In your situation mrs blackthorn, I'd have a really thorough go at convincing him. Does he have good evidence he lose clients over the move and find it hard to pick them up again?

"I think if you want to stay married to him, you need to go. If he chooses not to go because you don't want to, he is likely to resent you which will further weaken your relationship, as will him going to the US by himself."

I know it was said above, but what?? If DH makes OP go when she doesn't want to, she will resent him AND family life will be disrupted.

OP if it's a small company, they are unlikely to properly understand relocation costs. Been through this with a friend's co who are, as a company, generous and reasonable but didn't think through things like eg car hire for transferrees when they opened a new office. Then of course it wasn't in the budget so couldn't be retrofitted.

Accountancy fees for tax returns are pretty common too. Doing a spreadsheet together makes sense, and also if ways you could save in the UK if that's the goal.

theDoctrine, I picked up on the same thing and did post about it. I felt that I was supposed to make sure that DH doesn't resent me, but how come DH wasn't supposed to make sure I don't resent him. Giving up family seems more harsh to me than giving up work opportunities.

Where we are now is really trying to nail the figures. I really hoped he would do that but it is going to fall to me. I'm not good at that stuff and sleep very badly with my 4mo but I'll do it all the same. I'm going to accumulate as many figures and info as I can, then my financial adviser is coming in to help be as sure as we can be. DH just isn't thorough enough and even forgot to compute in his beer and fag money. So rubbish!

OP

Can he do night shift tonight and tomorrow (express if you need to?) so you can get some sleep and a clear head?

Take your mum with you - she might like the change.

Ah, North, if only it were that simple. She would not get a visa, but even more than that, she and DH do not get on. The thought of living out there and having her stay long-term gives me the jitters, just thinking about it.

That's a hard situation. If you DH knows how much you and your kids need your mum he should factor that into his decision - you can't really buy family bonds and any money he can save in the US won't be as valuable as the life you have here.

Not sure what to recommend but if you're not feeling very happy with your DH here you will likely feel less happy in a city that isn't your home. I'd probably encourage him to go on his own for a trial period of 6 months and review it then. He'll probably miss you all terribly and maybe not take you for granted as much.

Hope it all works out.

What does your Mum think about the possible move?

We spent just over a year in the US when DS was tiny - originally planned as 2 but MIL became ill so we returned: had we stayed she would have died before we returned home.

Relocation etc was generous for us BUT emotionally it wass very, very hard.

i was adjusting to life as a SAHM after a fulfilling career. US working hours (in DH's industry) and holiday allowances were not remotely family friendly - DH saw DS awake on Sunday afrternoons for most of the time we were there. DS is an early riser, but DH lerft before he awoke every morning, 6 days a week, and was home after DS was in bed. Very few holidays, and work demands meant DH also worked Sunday mornings. it was incredibly isolating for me. Things like mother & toddler groups, children's activities, health advice etc etc were hard to find (where we lived in the US, most mumks worked to get healthcare cover for their children. Being at home was a really radical thing to choose to do or, in cases like mine, something you did because your visa didn't let you work).

Had we stayed for the full 2 years, our marriage might not have survived - although it was a very solid relationship beforehand and has survived 13 more happy years with seldom a cross word since we returned. I wouldn't attempt it with a rocky relationship.

One other thing to put into the relocation package is tax. You need them to cover any tax that would be payable on the relocation costs they give you (and the tax on the tax they cover, etc.). Some relocation can be claimable as, effectively, expenses, but some of it just counts as extra income and is liable for tax.

'Where we are now is really trying to nail the figures. I really hoped he would do that but it is going to fall to me. I'm not good at that stuff and sleep very badly with my 4mo but I'll do it all the same. I'm going to accumulate as many figures and info as I can, then my financial adviser is coming in to help be as sure as we can be. DH just isn't thorough enough and even forgot to compute in his beer and fag money. So rubbish!'

Oh, FFS! Why are you indulging this man child? He's an adult who wants to go on a jolly because he fancies it. Beer and fag money? How old is he?

He goes on his own. It is not enough money for that region. But he doesn't give a shit.

Stop enabling him.

If there are even the slightest hint of problems in your relationship there's no way in a million years I would agree to relocating countries.

As others have mentioned, the Hague Convention (to which the US and UK are both signatories) means your children's place of habitual residence will be considered the US, and you cannot take them back to the UK without his permission.

The offer is awful. Most people I know had far more costs for moving.

DP was unemployed a while ago for a few months. I am main breadwinner, have been for a long time, but the margin has varied. He was offered a job in SE and I could have transferred (but would have needed to commute from a suitable place in Cambridgeshire to London).

He was offer £18k on his previous role, plus £8k relocation. My work were keen enough to give me the London living allowance (some £5k). Initially DP thought it seemed fantastic.

We have a 4 bed detached house in Edinburgh (not a cheap city), no DC and would have wanted something similar (detached probably impossible). I told him the offer wasn't good enough given stamp duty etc. It wasn't. He took a job here for £8k less and we are better off.

A break even offer has to be something everyone involved wants. If you expect a certain standard of living I would be wary about this. If you cannot trust your DH (and it sounds like you can't) I would be even more wary.

Another one here saying don't do it. In fact, your thread made me re-log in after the Heartbleed stuff!

We moved to Washington DC from London 2 years ago. The relocation package you've been offered is a joke. It cost us (DH's company) around £6000 to ship the majority of our possessions, plus DH's company paid for recce trip flights and then flights when we moved over. DH has UK holidays (4-5 weeks/yr), plus US bank holidays. He has a month off PAID when DC2 was born last year. And he works for a not for profit, not something big in finance like the IMF or World Bank - so basically you're being taken for a ride!

Most of what I could tell you has been said upthread many times over but it's tough not being able to work if you can't get the right visa/permission, it's hard to make American mum friends as everyone heads back to work after 6 weeks or so post birth and whilst the language may be the same, culturally the UK and US are worlds apart. It's hugely commercial, materialistic and quite frankly, I'll be glad when we've done our three years here. Don't get me wrong, we've had fun along the way but I don't want my children to grow up here. Medical care is excellent if you have the right insurance but even then, it's a total hassle, eg I need a new Mirena but the hospital I gave birth at is Catholic so my OB/GYN can't fit it. Hence I have to find another Dr. It's all so unnecessarily bureaucratic and complicated compared with the NHS/Bupa and I get quite sick of something so fundamental becoming such a total headache.

Rambling now but stay put OP! Your DH is imagining the fantasy version of NYC, not the reality of same shit, different country.

'If you do not want to go make that clear, if the reason becomes about the package you run the risk of your DH negotiating a better package and you still not wanting to go and him feeling tricked.'

^this

Gen: he doesn't think he'll lose clients at all. It would just mean doing conf calls in the evening instead of the daytime. Would make it harder to get new UK projects - but on the flip side, his skillset is very sought after there so he could easily pick up other new work there.

He's very comfortable at home though so is just reluctant to move. And he doesn't make friends easily so is worried about being isolated.

I cannot see how you will ever want to go if you and your hubby are not close. He doesn't seem to be talking to you on a level in a loving way, and without being defensive So the the prospect seems a lonely and unsatisfying one to me.

It could be a wonderful adventure but only if you're close and together.

Forgive me if you've mentioned this already, but what are his work prospects like if you stay where you are? Does he have a solid future with the company or are they looking to move him because there is less for him to do in the UK i.e. does he risk redundancy by not going? Will they hold it against him and peg him as not ateam player? Could he get similar experience in the UK by changing jobs? Are the overall prospects in his field as good in the UK as anywhere else?

To me it seems that there may be a danger of him getting swept up in the glamour of it being in NYC. Ask him, would he want to take the job if it were in York instead of New York? While a big move for a new environment may be fun when you are single and have no dependants, a married man with children simply cannot allow that to factor into his decision.

Jessie, that's a very good question. The answer is yes, he would want the job wherever it was. It's a huge opportunity to work on exactly the kind of projects that excite him and they don't exist in the UK. If we stay here he will have a job for a while but will probably have to go to another company to stay engaged, as there is so little going on. He's so good at what he does that it's very unlikely he would become unemployed. The fact that the opportunities are in NY is the cherry on the icing on the cake, as he loved it when he worked there last year.

I cut together a lot of comments from here into a document, and he's been through it. Although the consensus is that we can't save £1k a month, he has looked at all the posts that go into actual figures and outgoings, and still concludes that we can. It is very confusing.