To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

And yes, I'm sure it was hard for her seeing her only grandchildren being taken away from frequent contact, but she accepted that we were doing the best thing for the future of our family. A couple of years fly by.

New York City is outrageously expensive. The state schools are mostly unspeakable. Private schools are £ 20,000/year easily. I wouldn't go.

he could go, it doesn't have to be forever. If your marriage is strong enough it can manage 2 years of living in separate places if you feel you can't go.

Fascinating thread!

I also want to mention to you OP that while now you're doing a bit of freelance now and again here, you'd not be able to do that legally there and it'd potentially paralyse your career. My sis went to NYC, took her well over a year to get her H a green card. There's not enough compensation for the total hold your life'd have placed on it.

My sis (gregarious by nature) also found it HARD to make local friends, most of her friends were Brits, there are differences in culture that do seem to come as a shock when you get out there.

We moved to NJ in June 2013 for an initial 2 years. I would agree with the general consensus that you will probably not be saving £1000 per month on a salary of $150000, especially if you need to rent a 4 bed house or live in NYC.

As a guide, we are a family of 3 (dd is 13) + dog. We live in a top performing school district, so no school fees. I'm not sure what happens with kindergarten age children though.

We live in Bergen County in NJ and hubby commutes by train to Midtown daily. We are saving money primarily because we are renting a small 2 bed apartment. This costs $2300 p/m - 3 bed houses start at around $3500 p/m, with 4 beds at $4k +.

Our total monthly outgoings are $6300 - which leaves us around $2400 p/m. The outgoings include the following:

Rent, car lease, car insurance, umbrella insurance, pet insurance, contents insurance, TV, landline, broadband, gas, electricity, mobile phones x 3, YMCA membership, train pass, groceries & savings of $2000 p/m.

I left money in our UK bank accounts to continue pay our life insurance in the UK (insurers know we are living in the US).

We do not feel as if we are struggling at all. We eat out weekly, go shopping, cinema, drive to visit places at the weekend, sightsee in NYC. We simply don't waste money buying "stuff" as we can't take it back with us and of course do not have a garden or any DIY costs sucking money out. Luckily our daughter is adverse to any sports, so no huge costs there either! TBH, we rarely spend up to our monthly limit - some months we only spend around $1000. It really depends what type of lifestyle you want to lead. I'm not working over here (and wasn't in the UK either) and spend very little during the week. I probably could get my hair and nails done weekly but that just doesn't interest me!

Our biggest expense will be during the summer as the schools here are closed for 10 weeks . Dd & I will fly back to the UK for a visit, but the flights are costing around $2700 + we will also take a family holiday on the West Coast.

My hubby works for a small software company and our relocation package was:

Initial Flights over x 3 + shipping dog
$20,000 relocation budget (we will pay tax on this)
2 months corporate housing
Flights back to UK for all of us at the end of 2 years if we want to return to the UK.
Repatriation package if made redundant.
UK holiday allowance of 5 weeks.

We are renting our UK house out and please be aware that you will be liable for US tax on any profit. You will need to check whether this will apply to you.

We put all our furniture into storage and bought new (Ikea!) over here. Our relocation budget covered most of this, but I estimate that we've spent around $4k of our own money to set ourselves up (deposit on car lease, realtor's fee).

Be really sure that you want to do this as it is a very stressful experience for a short amount of time. For us this was all about having the opportunity as a family to experience living somewhere different and we are thoroughly enjoying ourselves.

Please feel free to PM me if you need any other details and I will be happy to help. I researched lots of areas to live in NJ as - wait for it - I can't drive
and there are some lovely completely walkable towns with easy access to NYC.

I think if you want to stay married to him, you need to go. If he chooses not to go because you don't want to, he is likely to resent you which will further weaken your relationship, as will him going to the US by himself.

Hi Cookietramp, I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say that we were in this situation some years ago with a move to the Middle East and I wouldn't have gone. DH made his own decision about it although he knew I wasn't keen and it turns out it was the right decision. My Mum and family were a huge factor in this for me. Good luck.

Just read my post back and should just make it clear that although I do not need a car, you definitely would need one to get around with 2 small children. It can also get to 100 degrees in the summer and we had lows of -17 this winter!

Gosh, I nearly want to move back again after reading this thread. We did love it there.

Want to agree with poster who says bond between your DC and your mother will not be lost. My PIL visited for 3 weeks about every 2 to 3 years, we paid for their flights. My DDs adore their nana. We see less of PIL since we have returned, but my MIL is still one of DDs most favorite people.

Btw, before we moved, my dad said to me, I just don't understand the two of you, you have everything here, what are you moving for? (We both had good jobs and had bought a house in a nice area). However, my mom worked abroad for several years before meeting my dad. She was excited for us, even if she missed us. She enjoyed her visits to us. But we are both oldest of several children, and already lived in different city than our parents before we moved.

I agree with Eurotrash

So to keep her man and keep him sweet she should move to another continent?

eurotrash I know what you mean, but I also get a feeling that kicks in, saying "why do i have to ensure he doesn't resent me by staying when I will resent him if I go? And no one is trying to protect me from that! Which makes me realise that somebody must "lose" as we are on such different pages with it .

Tonight he was more forthcoming about it all, but still believes in his figures. He accepts we need to nail more stuff in the relocation package but thinks $150k will be enough to save, given that it's NJ, state school and flights included. He says it's more than a senator makes and more than doctors and so getting more is completely ridiculous.

Cookie what does he say to the fact he'll be making your life more miserable in order to make his better?

If you really want to save, you will. Create direct debit straight to savings, and spend accordingly.
It might mean you don't rent 4 bed house. But honestly, you can manage with 3 bed house. It will probably mean you drive a regular, gas efficient car, rather than a more exciting gas guzzler. And other such efficiencies. Ie, you will be living on a budget rather than spending what you earn.

But it really isn't likely to work out if you are not enthusiastic about the move.

Would some additional sessions at Relate help? Especially
Regarding seeing this as a win/lose situation?

But have you sat down and actually worked through a budget?

Let's say you take home $8000 a month after tax.

$4000 rent
$500 utilities (that's what we spend on average and we're not wasteful)
$500 car and insurance (assuming you get by with one which means you need to live walking distance to transport to NYC which pushes rents up)
$1000 groceries (at least if you want to eat decent food)
$200 phones and internet
$100 insurance - contents and liability
$200 commute (at least)
$100 health. Even with the best insurance, you'll end up paying something!
So that's $6600 on basics

You have $1500 a month left over for flights home (say $3000 per year if you go once a year and don't yet pay for the baby), activities, days out, clothes, meals out, babysitters or whatever else you like to spend your money on. You won't be putting it all away in savings!

You can have a decent lifestyle on that salary, for sure. But you won't be coming home with loads of money put away unless you scrimp and save which kind of defeats the purpose of going! If you're going to upsticks and move, you want to be able to have the money to enjoy your new place.

I do have some sympathy for your dh because I know that feeling when you think there's a fabulous opportunity and your spouse isn't keen and I worry about resentment if he didn't agree. But your dh needs to work with you on this so you can reach the best decision for the whole family - you, him and the kids. We actually ended up coming to NYC before I accepted the job to check things out and see if it could work. It was expensive but totally worth it because after the trip, dh felt it was a risk but one worth taking. Would that be a possibility for you?

I'm glad that a few posters here have taken the time to mention that this could be a really amazing experience. I have lived in The US for 12 years, first LA then San Diego and now Seattle and I have loved my time here. NY is a blast and you'll only be a 5 hour flight away from the UK and your family and this is a temporary move, right?

HOWEVER... I posted earlier and many people are saying the exact same thing- you'll be shocked at how much it costs to live in NY. Honestly it doesn't sound like your DH has a truly realistic grasp of the cost of living there. I was offered a post in NY after my time in LA but I chose San Diego (and took a pay cut to do it) because I still made out better financially in San Diego with less money.
I LOVE NY but go for the experience but do not assume you'll be able to save money there.

Cookie - on the relocation point alone, it would take very little time to expose his suggestion that 5K is enough to be incorrect. I definitely don't work for a financial firm - I'm not well paid really - but even my firm spends way more than that on moving people when it needs to.

Costs you need to consider are: shipping your stuff, hotel accommodation whilst you house hunt, car hire and cost of buying a car in a place where you will have no credit record so will need to pay cash, deposit on a house to rent etc. The list is long and almost anyone of the things on that list will consume your entire budget.

Another one adding my "don't go" opinion. We relocated from London to NYC three years ago, had one DC since we arrived.

It's a tough one for both of you, and you both have pushes and pulls in different directions. None are objectionable or unreasonable.

I think that the issue is that your DH is probably facing an all-or-nothing situation, whereas you are facing a give-a-bit-here-or-there situation. That's why you felt you might be being unreasonable.

Ultimately, you're going to have hard work on your hands. If he doesn't go, there's the disappointment and possible resentment. If you both go, you will have struggles of your own (and you will, I agree with all that's been posted above about practicalities). If he goes alone, you'll both have to work hard at making the marriage work long distance and keeping the family together.

Honestly, having been through it, in your shoes I would pick the third option. It's the least bad. It's a more equal share of the burden of the change. I don't think that your DH should 'pay' for being offered a career opportunity, just as you shouldn't 'pay' for preferring to stay in the UK. This is just one of those things that life throws up.

Btw, our relocation package (DH and me, London to NYC, two bed to two bed) in 2011 was $15k. We spent a little over that.

I definitely think he should go for 6 months or so ahead of you guys and give it a go. This will give him time to

• "get to know people" and won't be out drinking while you're home bored. - REALLY appreciate how much it costs to live there
• organise a place to live and furnish it (much less stress on you and the kids)
• get into the swing of things (and thus be less stressed and "mean" while trying to learn).

Then I think you need to give it a try as well. He'll resent you if he doesn't try it.

I live in the US and think you should DEFINITELY ask them how much the insurance premium will cost per month and whether this will be on top of his salary, or taken out of the $150,000.

Perhaps even consider leaving the kids with your mum for a week or 2 during the end of the 6 months to fly over and get things together for your move over (I too suggest buying mostly new - IKEA - furniture rather than shipping it. You'll save money, in my opinion, rather than shipping). I also suggest looking on www.zillow.com at houses, paying attention to the school rating.

You might be able to ask a lawyer about drawing up a contract with him giving you permission to take the kids back to the UK. It seems a bit silly but maybe it's possible?

Also, you WILL get homesick, and you'll get more homesick if you keep focusing on everything you've given up. If you instead focus on this being a special experience and focusing on making the most of this "holiday" I think you'll enjoy it. Don't be afraid to try something new.

This new experience might be good for your relationship as well.

I don't know anything about the financial side of it but I also say "don't go" if you're not in a strong relationship. I went to Australia for and with DH (Aussie) and it hasn't all been a bed of roses for sure! I would be torn about staying there if I had a choice; but I don't really because he won't come back to the UK, at least not while his own Mum is still alive and I can't take the boys away from him because of the Hague convention etc. and Australia is too far anyway.

If he really wants to go, let him - he might decide that it's not as good as he thought anyway and wouldn't he feel stupid if, a year after uprooting you all, he decided he wanted to come back again! So let him go by himself and try it out and then review in a while. America is at least not as far away as Australia, and I think it's only a 7h flight back to the UK from NY, so it's not that bad for visiting - depending on costs, he could come back at least monthly, and there's Skype/face time etc. to stay in touch with the DC and you.

I'm glad we went over when DS1 was still playgroup age - going to playgroups was the thing that saved me from real problems, because I met a lot of other mums and made some friends there because we were sitting together for 2h at a time, unlike school gate things, where you might never even speak to another mum, and probably not for more than 5mins at a time.

I hope you manage to find a way through this - it's a horrible situation to be in.

I made this type of move with my family 4 years ago, to the Washington, D.C. Area. Putting the salary aside, which I think is doable, but tight, and you would not be likely to be saving $1,000 / month, much less GBP1,000, the relocation package is not very impressive at all.

We got a package of $15,000 for the move, plus business class flights, 2 weeks in hotel, 6 months rent and bills, $5,000 towards new electricals and furniture, and a $5,000 interest free loan towards settling in costs. Also got 2 years worth of KPMG doing our tax returns, and a month's car rental, as well as a realtor's support and some costs toward buying a new home within the first 2 years. We paid to ship our dog, and our old car, as well as some strange things, which are not covered. My employer also paid all costs for the whole family for our green cards.

Despite all that, which sounds good, I am sure, this was one of the hardest things we have ever done as a family, and it certainly put a lot of strain on our marriage. And I do not work in the financial area, I work for a big engineering company.

Oh just to add - it cost us about £6000 to move our household to Australia. Granted, it's a lot further, but I don't think that it's the distance that creates the cost so much, it's the packing and container space! So US$5k isn't going to be anything like enough.

The situation you are in with your mum- her relationship with her grandchildren and the support that she gives you, vs lack of emotional support/general understanding from your DH sounds similar to mine. I would find it VERY hard to give this up. He would not begin to comprehend this. I suggest that you would need to think very carefully about how to approach NOT going. If you use emotional language you may not get your point across effectively - perhaps you need to use some of the financial examples that others have helped with to illustrate that the opportunity is not quite as great as it sounds? You do not want to be the Bad Guy for not wanting to go (would he post a 'AIBU to refuse to stay in the UK with wife?'- no, he is thinking of himself); and probably for ever and on if you don't go you will be the one that destroyed his greatest opportunity so that needs to be nipped in the bud.

OP -- what is your financial situation like in the UK?

You say you have a low mortgage and presumably your husband is making a good salary in the UK already, or has the potential to do very well (if they are offering him so much in the US), and you are doing some freelance and presumably will work more in the coming years.

I ask because even if he can show that you can save, let's say £500-800 a month (more realistic), is this something you would be able to do in the UK as well? Because if so, then the only reason to really go to the US would be for the adventure, and if you're not up for that, that is perfectly valid.

I actually don't think it would be fair for him to resent you for not going. I don't think people should assume, once they have a family, that they can just jet all over the world to wherever they want and the family has to go along.

My husband and I have both been expats for many years now. I am job searching and believe me, there are loads of jobs I'm not applying for because I don't think it would be best for my family. Sometimes I have a little pang of regret about that but in no way do I ever resent them for it.

150k is not a lot in NYC. We were on that a decade ago and would have struggled then too. We lived in New Jersey, one hour away.