Am I being unreaosnable to think that having kids shouldn't automatically give you more right to have the bank holidays off?

[KitKat1985]

Hello all.

Maybe Mumsnet isn't the best place to ask this question but I'm fed up. I work as a nurse in a hospital unit (open 24 hours, 365 days a week). It is, obviously, a fact of our job that the bank holidays need to be covered on the nursing rota, and I have no problem with this per se, as I accept that it's part of the job. What I am fed up is that my boss seems automatically to give the large majority of bank holiday working to those who are child-less, and gives priority to have the day off to the nursing staff who are parents. I could understand more if this was a child-care issue, but no, 95% of the parents where I work have partners / husbands who are also off on the bank holiday, so that there is already child-care available. I have just worked all 4 days of the Easter weekend, not spent any quality time with my husband, and missed one engagement party and family gathering because of work; and yet a lot of my colleagues with children have been off the whole 4 days (again). I'm down on the next rota to work May-day as well. Christmas and New Year is even worse (and causes a lot of staff tensions) as a lot of child-less staff find themselves working all over Christmas and New Year, inevitably leading to a lot of bad feeling against the nursing staff with children, who seem to automatically get priority to have the time off. I'm not anti-family (and am indeed, currently pregnant) but am I being unreasonable to think that the bank holiday working should be shared out a bit better? It's very difficult to discuss this issue with my ward manager, who has several children herself, and is very adamant about not working bank holidays as it's 'family time'.

DC don't need Christmas on the 25 Dec. Mine ages 13 yrs down to 16 months had it on the 23rd as DP was away with the military and I had to work. They spent 9 hrs with a babysitter and MIl. watching movies and playing with the toys they got 2 days earlier. Santa left a stocking on the 25th. It cost me ££££ but didn't scar them for life either.
Everyone's circumstances are different but just think I spentvChristmas two years ago with my DDad 2 days later he died suddenly. That was my last Christmas with him. Why should someone having DC deny an adult child a last Christmas/holiday with a parent?

xpost with MrsDC

Yanbu and I have three young kids. I try to work bank hols as usually family are off to mind the kids. I prefer to work new year and have Christmas off so I always offer to work new year. It's fair everyone takes turns.

YANBU. It is not up to management to decide who's work life balance is more important than another's. Their job i to ensure that rosters are drawn up fairly. If staff choose, between themselves, to swap shifts, that's different. But no one should be forced or guilt tripped into taking on extra bank holiday or Christmas shifts because they don't have children. People have all sorts of reasons why they may want or need those days off and people with children should not go around assuming they're somehow more entitled or deserving of those days off.

Also, I grew up for years with my Dad working offshore. If he was rostered on, he was rostered on. Trading was possible, but not trivial as it usually involved both people doing a 3 week stretch of 12hrs per day, 7 days per week.

Actually as a child I coped. It was harder ironically as an adult when DPIL expected us there every other year but DF's rota had gotten a bit odd.

I guess what I'm saying is that while we loved having my Dad at home, as a child I coped, so I do wonder whether some of the 'must have for the kids' is actually 'must have for the parents'.

Agree Andrew What an impossible request expecting someone who doesn't even work on a Saturday to book that as a day off.
And I didn't fail to notice that you put the word wedding in inverted commas Monica.
All this speaks volumes.

I think parents should only be given special consideration for Christmas morning. All other bank holiday shifts should be shared out fairly and evenly to all concerned.

I do think it would be kind to allow parents to spend Christmas Morning with their young children.

The rest of Christmas Day and all other bank holidays are enjoyed by all types of people- childless and parents, so I don't think parents should have priority at all.

Except many people can not spend Xmas with family unless they travel on Xmas morning or xmas Eve.

Grennie to quote Ian Brown on the Late Show "I think we are wasting our time here"

Darkesteyes, I honestly can't find where I put wedding in inverted commas, please enlighten me (if this is the basis for it 'speaking volumes').

In Andrew's example, if Jim had something on that important, he should have put leave in in advance. There was a Saturday working expectation, even though it wasn't his 'turn', but you still make sure leave is in if it's important.

What is your point darkesteyes?

Well then those people need to put their leave requests in with everyone else Grennie, in advance, and volunteer to work at other unsavoury times.

Why on earth would you take leave for a scheduled day off Surely once it's scheduled it's scheduled and it's understood that you might make non-changeable plans for those days unless you explicitly work a flexible rota? Admittedly I work a Mon-Fri office job these days, so it's a while since I've been at the mercy of rota.

I was on leave on the day the new years leave plan was put up. By the time I got into work the next day, almost all of the school holidays had been booked up, as we have a first come first served system.

I am now faced with spending a fortune in time and money trying to sort out what in Gods name I'm going to do about childcare ( no GPs on tap, DD 8yo - too young for most local sports clubs but too old for local play scheme which caters for mostly 4-7 yos and anyway can only be booked daily on first come first served basis).

I estimate having about 15-20 days ( out of 30) which I will not be able to use constructively to cover school hold. First come first served is not always fair.

I work Mon to Fri at the moment, but in my place of work if you have a day that is massively important then you put in leave so that it is set in stone (it is classed as 'non-working day' leave, so obviously does not come off your entitlement).

This means that if a duty crops up unexpectedly, your 'leave' is honoured over everyone else.

In my younger years of working retail I think our manager had it spot on. You worked every second public holiday, regardless of your status. IF you could find someone to swap with, then you could, but you'd be first on the list for the next public holiday. Anyone that actually wanted to work the public holiday (most juniors were happy to take on the public holiday shifts for the money) you could put your name on the roster board and someone could tell the manager and they would swap it, but if you'd worked a few public holidays that you weren't rostered on for, then you would certainly be given priority for the next one if you wanted it. There was no distinction between parents/non parents.

This situation only applies where I work to the two bank holidays in May. The way we work it is that each member of staff is entitled to take one day off and must work the other. Generally those of us with school age children take the second bank holiday off as it falls within half-term and work the first and vice versa with the staff who don't have dependent children. We all have a good working relationship so most people are happy with this agreement.

Holidays are strictly first come first served. So as soon as I get my annual leave form I book the days I want.

YANBU - I had an argument with a staff member once who told me her christmas was more important than hers as she had kids and I didn't so it wasn't fair to expect her to work across christmas (I was her supervisor BTW)

monicalewinski Tue 22-Apr-14 22:46:25

I work Mon to Fri at the moment, but in my place of work if you have a day that is massively important then you put in leave so that it is set in stone (it is classed as 'non-working day' leave, so obviously does not come off your entitlement).

This means that if a duty crops up unexpectedly, your 'leave' is honoured over everyone else.

So in your job you have to put leave requests in for days that you don't even work or are contracted to work . I suspect that in your place of work ppl are pressured to come in on what is supposed to be their day off. Because I cant think of any other reason for this ridiculous rule.

My Oh and were both nurses and when our DC were tiny we were both rostered to work 7am-3pm on the morning of the millennium. Nobody wanted to babysit for us as it was such a special occasion and everyone was partying. Sure, it was our fault for having kids but the Trust did profess to be family friendly and then put us in that position. The result? one of us had to self-cert and illness and someone else had to work it anyway.

Darkesteyes, Andrew said that the job had 'rostered' Saturday working, therefore there was tasking to be carried out on a Saturday.

If there is a regular Saturday tasking, and the rostered person falls ill, who does the job? Someone else will have to do it - this is where the non-working day leave pass comes in. If I had put one in (for e.g. to attend a wedding) then someone other than me would have to cover the person who has gone sick.

Yes, my place of work regularly has short notice working weekends or when you are 'rostered off' to answer your question. I am in the raf, and flood duties, foot & mouth etc etc etc don't tend to pencil themselves in, they come out of the blue.

(You still haven't directed me to the mysterious inverted commas btw)

monica I guess that makes sense on a shift pattern. I was contract in previous shift jobs, so am a bit out of touch.

I'm a project manager so we stil do have weekend work, albeit it's uncommon (but it's commonly in the summer). I would flag up an unavailable weekend as early as possible. Kids in an of themselves are not an excuse for avoiding summer weekends, but if you don't have support, most of us would be accommodating.

All I would say is, if you railroad the child free / the young / those with grown up children to avoid certain holidays and you also work in a large organisation, do be prepared for them taking 3 weeks rather than two. I've heard November is ripe for the Caribbean and of course there's skiing in late Feb....

Most people volunteer for their preferred week/days off over the festive period tbh buggersmuddle. In 19 years it has been rare to see someone having to do the week they didn't particularly want.

In fact, on the occasions where the young singlies have volunteered to stay and work, one of the marrieds will always have them over for Xmas day/evening. When you are doing a duty that you are working Xmas, there are a hundred people that pop in to bring mince pies, sausage rolls and sweets to the guys that are working (9 out of 10 have usually volunteered to work).

Actually, re the skiing, a large number of the singlies do go off skiing in Feb actually - they have 2 or 3 weeks off.

YANBU but the reason is because it's probably very difficult for them to find childcare, probably not so they can have a fun day with their children.

I think that there is some justification for Christmas Day itself - just the day - for parents of young (under ten) children. And the problem could probably be overcome by offering a financial incentive (or an alternative of two days off) and asking for volunteers.

when I was young my friends mom, who was a nurse, said that the hospital she worked at gave a financial incentive. it was either double or triple pay for holidays (i forget). what they did is ask for volunteers first, and then have a back up rota system if volunteers didn't come forward. There were always takers as many people didn't care about christmas/easter and would happily take double pay.

as someone with kids I sympathize with the parents, but it's obviously unfair to saddle people without kids with all the burden.