Am I being unreaosnable to think that having kids shouldn't automatically give you more right to have the bank holidays off?

[KitKat1985]

Hello all.

Maybe Mumsnet isn't the best place to ask this question but I'm fed up. I work as a nurse in a hospital unit (open 24 hours, 365 days a week). It is, obviously, a fact of our job that the bank holidays need to be covered on the nursing rota, and I have no problem with this per se, as I accept that it's part of the job. What I am fed up is that my boss seems automatically to give the large majority of bank holiday working to those who are child-less, and gives priority to have the day off to the nursing staff who are parents. I could understand more if this was a child-care issue, but no, 95% of the parents where I work have partners / husbands who are also off on the bank holiday, so that there is already child-care available. I have just worked all 4 days of the Easter weekend, not spent any quality time with my husband, and missed one engagement party and family gathering because of work; and yet a lot of my colleagues with children have been off the whole 4 days (again). I'm down on the next rota to work May-day as well. Christmas and New Year is even worse (and causes a lot of staff tensions) as a lot of child-less staff find themselves working all over Christmas and New Year, inevitably leading to a lot of bad feeling against the nursing staff with children, who seem to automatically get priority to have the time off. I'm not anti-family (and am indeed, currently pregnant) but am I being unreasonable to think that the bank holiday working should be shared out a bit better? It's very difficult to discuss this issue with my ward manager, who has several children herself, and is very adamant about not working bank holidays as it's 'family time'.

[NotNewButNameChanged]

So, DrHamster, I'm interested, at what children's ages should parents have priority on holidays?

[hellsbells99]

My DH has just worked all 4 days over Easter weekend - 12 hour shifts. That is his job, he was on shift. They did need some extra staff in and got plenty of volunteers for the Friday and Monday because they were given extra pay for the bank holidays! DH gets 2 days off in lieu so we are fine with that. The DCs accept that comes with his job. It is not an issue. Unfortunately he is also working May Day too - but that is because he has volunteered to swap shifts so that his work colleague can have time off to get married!

[Hullygully]

From each to each.

[monicalewinski]

I totally agree with Maryz re Xmas day.

I have always volunteered well in advance to work New year's eve & day to ensure I get Xmas day itself off.

I think that's perfectly fair, as the singles or those with no children generally prefer those days rather than Xmas day. Obviously some desperately want Xmas themselves, in which case they should volunteer to work a shit shift to ensure the day off that they want.

Other bank holidays are not 'family time', kids are off enough throughout the year so plenty of family time opportunities.

If you desperately want a certain day off, then surely you apply for leave well in advance? Op, were the engagement party you missed and the family gathering planned at the last minute? If not then you are being unreasonable about just waiting for rosters to come out and not planning leave enough in advance.

[themockingjay]

I'm a nurse too I have massive problems with Christmas Day as its my Ds's birthday too so if I miss that I've missed his birthday and both children's Christmas days...

But I understand that is the job I chose, we only work alternative Christmas days at our Trust so When I was due to work my sons first birthday I did an overtime shift and earned about £100 I then used this money to bribe someone to work my Christmas for me and I plan do this every year I'm supposed to work Christmas.

As for other bank holidays i'll request like everyone else with or without children and see what I get

[MrsWickens]

This is why I believe bank holidays should be scrapped now we have a holiday entitlement. Keep the public holidays such as Christmas Day and New Years day but scrap the bank holidays that are no longer necessary.

Do you have anyone higher up than your ward manager that you speak to so you can request that they allocate the days fairly so if you work christmas day/boxing day you are off on new year's eve/new year's day?

[toobreathless]

YANBU at all.

I also work in a hospital (doctor) in a department providing a 24hr service year round. Bank holidays, weekends, nights are allocated on a rolling rota- we get absolutely no say at all. We can try and swap but if no one wants to swap with you- tough.

Annual leave is on a first come first served basis, first to get the paperwork in gets it. Seems pretty fair to me.

[OnlyLovers]

DrHamster, it is not the responsibility of the rest of the world to cushion other people's children from possibly feeling sad at their parent(s) having to work on Christmas Day.

And as for them not understanding, what about children with special needs/learning differences, who may not 'understand' until much later in life, if at all? What about children who 'understand' at a younger age than 10, or whatever arbitrary age limit you would put on this?

[MyUsernameIsPants]

This happened to my DM (NHS) for 7 years. She worked every christmas day (12 hr shift), every boxing day and new years eve & day.

The staff with small children got all those days off, every year. DM didn't mind doing her share at all, but she also has 9 small grandchildren who she would like to see open their presents. DM has been single for years, it would be nice for her to spend christmas day with one of her 4 children and have a lovely meal and be with the grandchildren, but just because she has no dependents, her manager and colleagues seem to think she has no life.

YANBU OP.

[WhoDaresWins]

drhamster in your case, the staff are happy with it and that's great. It's a voluntary arrangement. No one should be forced into it.

This is some kind of discrimination in my mind - you're being treated unfairly because of your status - this would be illegal if it were your race, gender or age.

[monicalewinski]

It may come as a shock to some, but prior to having children I was childless.

In those years I always volunteered to work Xmas day so that my colleagues who had young children could spend Xmas day with their kids. It was no problem to me as a grown woman to have 'Xmas' a day earlier or later.

[KitKat1985]

I completely agree Rowna that a set rota (say a 6-week rolling rota) would resolve all of these issues, and never understand why wards don't do it. It would save hours of rota planning every month, and everyone would know what they were doing and could plan for weeks ahead, which would both benefit people with and without kids. In addition you could ensure weekend shifts etc were shared out evenly (another bugbear for a lot of people). As for bank holidays, it could just be accepted that you worked the bank holiday if it landed on a day you were meant to work, and it would hopefully save a lot of arguments and resentments.

[toobreathless]

I also think that arguably the 'under 10s'/small children are the easiest to accommodate! Simply move Christmas to either Christmas Eve or Boxing Day.

It's not rocket science.

[NotNewButNameChanged]

monica - that's fine. You were happy to volunteer. But it should not be the case that managers automatically dictate that non-parents have to work so parents can spend time with the children they chose to have. You might be childless or childfree but it doesn't mean you don't want to spend Christmas with family. Or a partner. Family isn't just children and if you live very far from your family and see them rarely, or you have aged parents or grandparents for whom this might be a last Christmas, why should the fact that someone has children be more important?

[Jubelteen]

YANBU. DH is ex forces when we lived in MQs (and had young DC) he'd volunteer for Xmas so that singlies could travel home rather than spending a miserable time on their own in the block.
In my workplace people with school age kids think they are entitled to priority for Jul/ Aug leave, they dont consider child free people who have to fit in with partners who may be unable to take leave at other times due to factory shutdowns etc.

[OnlyLovers]

monica, and if that was fine for you then great. But just because you were happy with the arrangement doesn't mean that everyone else without children should be happy to do the same thing.

I am a 'grown woman' too and I have no problem with saying that I like to have Christmas Day on actual Christmas Day. Does that make me less 'grown' than you, or in some other way inferior? Or any of the others on here who object to this discrimination? I find your comment very snarky.

[DrHamstertoyou]

Well am I glad that I work with the team I'm in and not some of you! (mutual I'm sure) I work in a small team and we self roster but get on well enough that holidays are discussed well in advance. It's not just children that are accommodated it's occasions that are special to any of the team members so I'll work a weekend if it's someone's anniversary, mums birthday etc so because i'm flexible for them they are flexible for me when it matters to me. And where I am if you work Xmas day you don't work new years day which seems to suit us as it's the parents of young kids that aren't bothered about partying late on new years eve!
Don't think I'll ever leave my team!

[Grennie]

Where my dad used to work, you got xmas day or new years eve off, you couldn't have both. Young people without kids generally wanted New Years Eve off, so it could be sorted out amicably.

Everyone cares about some time off for different reasons. So for my devout Christian relative, not working over Easter is very important as she is busy at church.

I think I would have left my job if I hadn't got the time off so I could spend my last Christmas with my gran who I knew was going to die soon. Christmas was very important to her to have her family round her, and I would have felt guilty for ever if I hadn't been able to spend it with her.

[ErrolTheDragonsEgg]

From each to each.

Yes... problem is when there's a manager who perceives the needs of their staff through the prism of their own experience.

let's face it, no-one wants to work over bank holidays
Actually, I often choose to - I work for a US company, my manager doesn't mind me swapping a UK public holiday for a different day, so I quite often opt for a less-busy non-bank holiday day within the school hols. I would guess there might be quite a lot of parents who would find that this worked well for them.

[Grennie]

Jubelteen - Yes I don't have kids but my partner can only take leave during school holidays. If I never got time off then, we could never go on holiday together. Before my DP's current job I didnt care about having time off during school holidays, now it is vital.

[monicalewinski]

It was meant to be snarky onlylovers.

I find it ridiculous that an adult has to celebrate Xmas day ON Xmas day. For a child, Santa comes on that specific day, not the day after or before.

It was fine for me to volunteer to do a shit shift to allow someone with young kids to have Xmas, because I am unselfish in that respect.

If you desperately want Xmas day off, then volunteer to work Xmas evening, it's that simple.

[NotNewButNameChanged]

DrHamster I would still be interested to know what your answer is to the question I posed you upthread. If you feel that priority SHOULD be given to parents of "little" children who don't understand why their parent is working when some parents are not, at what children's ages do you feel parents should be made exempt from working bank holidays?

[NotNewButNameChanged]

Monica if you really think it's that simple then you may feel you are unselfish but I feel you are being incredibly naïve.

[Grennie]

monicalewinsky - Have xmas a day earlier? I can see how that is possible if it is just you or your partner. But if you have xmas lunch with extended family, they are unlikely to want to move xmas day for you. The reality is if I worked xmas day, I would miss xmas day with extended family members.