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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask those of you who are pro life?

999 replies

Anonynony · 21/04/2014 14:49

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her Shock
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

OP posts:
twofingerstoGideon · 23/04/2014 10:55

Twice? Sassysally? Who said anything about twice? Are you making things up as you go along?
NOt about you twofingers , another poster,Donna had had 2 double contraceptive failures.
So why have you pasted MY comments about MY circumstances if you're talking about another poster?

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 10:55

sins of the fathers

Really go back to Catherine Cookson and stop trying to engage with real people in real crisis.

You have no practical solutions just vicarious hearts and flowers.

Disgusting!

CaptChaos · 23/04/2014 10:56

For the hard of thinking.

Abortion is legal in certain circumstances up to term, therefore a foetus has no rights until it is born, the whole 24 weeks thing is a red herring. The foetus doesn't gain rights at that point, the woman loses them.

I realise that that is a difficult concept for some people to get their minds around, but it is how it is. A foetus isn't a person in law, with all the rights and responsibilities that incurs until it takes it's first breath or shows other signs of life outside of the uterus

I have to wonder at the mindset of someone who continues to force engagement on another when that person has specifically asked them not to. It is that kind of imposition of beliefs that personifies the whole debate. The forced birthers want everyone to do as they want, those of us who believe that women should have choice just want that, that women be treated like adults and given real choice.

Paternalism and patriarchy versus self determination.

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 10:57

sassy do you actually understand my post in my position?

You asked a question. Do you understand the answer.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 10:59

Yep, definitely me Gideon.
On what do you base your guesses calculations Sassy Would they be the same ones used to work out how long a rape victim would be able to cope with a child, a boy perhaps, who looked like the father?

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 11:00

differentname, the adoption process could definitely be improved. Clearly there are couples who want babies and could offer them a good life and they are being turned down/put off.

killing does not always = murder.

"and how many women would choose to have an abortion that late without a very good reason? Less than 1%, but according to some on this thread, 100%"

The less than 1% are having an abortion for the restricted reasons that they are allowed, the figures give no indications of the number of women who would have abortions for other non-medical reasons. Why is this so hard from people to understand? You are not going to have official figures for something that is currently illegal.

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 11:00

Why would you deny a child born out of rape, a life? Why is his/her life worth less than that of a child born from consensual sex?
Don't tell me you believe the sins of the father should be visited on the child?

Are you fucking serious? Sorry, but you have just lost the whole argument. Now, off you go

I think true pro-lifers have to reject the "rape exception", don't they? Otherwise, they are pro-choice. It's really the only position that means they don't concede to a woman's right to choose.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 11:02

You are not going to have official figures for something that is currently illegal.
Because there are figures from other countries, where abortion is legal up to term.

You still haven't proposed a method of dealing with Baby's trauma. It's all well and good you ignoring me, it just makes it look like you are unable to answer the points put to you. Oh...

CaptChaos · 23/04/2014 11:05

I think true pro-lifers have to reject the "rape exception", don't they? Otherwise, they are pro-choice. It's really the only position that means they don't concede to a woman's right to choose.

Yes. It's back to Madonna/Whore thing again. Only the most rabid of the forced birthers want to further punish women and girls who have been raped by forcing them to give birth to their abusers child. Hey, it's only fair for a 10 year old girl's uncle to have a crack at fatherhood though, isn't it? To force a child to go through pregnancy and birth on the say-so of someone who has never met her, never will and who's interest in her will disappear as soon as the baby is born.

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 11:05

BabyFaced, no, I did not forget. "I would not agree with induction prior to the age of viability where the aim is clearly to terminate the foetus' life."

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 11:07

bumbly it's not hard to understand

we know there are no figures because currently it's illegal

Do you find it then easy to imagine that there will be queues of heavily pregnant women terminating healthy babies because they feel like it. *

hey it's Monday, 8 months pregnant and can't be arsed any more so off to the clinic*

Do you have any sense?

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 11:08

I would not agree with induction prior to the age of viability where the aim is clearly to terminate the foetus' life

Still obfuscating.

Would you have sanctioned an abortion in Baby's circumstances at 12 weeks? The answers are "yes" or "no".

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 11:08

"I think true pro-lifers have to reject the "rape exception", don't they? Otherwise, they are pro-choice. "

Many pro-choicers reject the 'abortion to term for any reason' idea - does that mean they are not pro-choice?

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 11:11

No, no one has said anything about there being queues of heavily pregnant thebody. One is one to many though so no, most people do not support the idea of making it legal to term for any reason.

Maid, not obfuscating. The answer is there. Basic English comprehension.

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 11:13

Maid, not obfuscating. The answer is there. Basic English comprehension.

No it isn't. There are far too many loaded terms for me to want to make an assumption.

I would not agree with induction prior to the age of viability where the aim is clearly to terminate the foetus' life

Would you have sanctioned an abortion in Baby's circumstances at 12 weeks? The answers are "yes" or "no".

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 11:14

Many pro-choicers reject the 'abortion to term for any reason' idea - does that mean they are not pro-choice?
Still not answering the question.
Now, I see you have learnt about Strawman arguments from the logical fallacy site I sent you. Shall we try to learn about the others now, because the use of logical fallacies, again, is getting a bit tedious.

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 11:15

capt yes here we go again sluts v good girl.

You can access help and you can't.

Or more probable good girl, you can access a &100 quid and a pat on the shoulder and then fuck off.

Slut, you can just fuck off.

ikeaismylocal · 23/04/2014 11:15

For me it isn't about the figures regarding how many late abortions happen it is the principle and the fact that some posters have said that to class yourself as pro-choice you need to support the idea of abortions of healthy babies regardless of the gestation.

I would therefore have to class myself as pro-life despite supporting the idea of abortion (on the woman's request, not only those judged to be worthy cases) and supporting tge idea of abortion of babies with severe health problems or when the mother's life is in danger.

gordyslovesheep · 23/04/2014 11:16

Yes Bumbly - lets get rid of all adoption laws and let anyone take a spare baby - I'm sure social services refuse people out of spite and not because it's in the best interest of any potential children Hmm

there are lots of children wanting homes already - people don't want them because they are not babies or not perfect - but yes - lets let women become incubators for such wonderful people wanting perfect babies

you just sound deranged

bumbleymummy · 23/04/2014 11:16

Your answers are 'yes' and 'no', my answer is written there. Is a 12 week old foetus 'prior to the age of viability'? Can you figure this out yourself?

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 11:17

Your answers are 'yes' and 'no', my answer is written there. Is a 12 week old foetus 'prior to the age of viability'? Can you figure this out yourself?
Yes or No?

TheBabyFacedAssassin · 23/04/2014 11:18

Oh I get it now, as long as you don't 'mean' to terminate the life of the foetus an induction at 24 weeks is hunky dory!

Oh bumbley, what's it like to live in your world?

MaidOfStars · 23/04/2014 11:18

Your answers are 'yes' and 'no', my answer is written there. Is a 12 week old foetus 'prior to the age of viability'? Can you figure this out yourself?

In Baby's circumstances, the concept of viability is utterly meaningless (sorry to be so explicit, Baby).

I would not agree with induction prior to the age of viability where the aim is clearly to terminate the foetus' life

Would you have sanctioned an abortion in Baby's circumstances at 12 weeks? The answers are "yes" or "no".

gordyslovesheep · 23/04/2014 11:18

yes - good abortion V bad abortion

like good aids and bad aids

good if the women neither consented or enjoyed sex or the baby is less than perfect

bad if the woman enjoyed sex or wanted it - shameful harlot Hmm

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 11:20

The new scientist article is very interesting by the way. The report argues that pain responses may begin to develop only after a baby is born, and no longer sedated in the womb, and that this may explain why neonates experience pain differently to fetuses. "It is only after birth, with the separation of the baby from the uterus and the umbilical cord, that wakefulness truly begins," it concludes.

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