To ask those of you who are pro life?

[Anonynony]

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

Your answers are laughable.

There are all ready thousands of children in care.

There will be back street abortions if you deny womem safe abortions.

Womem who abort don't want help/money/advice on keeping their child. They don't want to be pregnant/give birth or parent the child under any circumstances as they have already rejected that course by seeking am abortion.

You are, as my gran would have said, all mouth and no trousers

And I would add a bit naive and daffy as I don't want to swear at you.

Nitey night and try to keep away from the fairies.

well I didn't expect you to agree with them thebody

Some women do want help/money/advice so that they can keep their child. They feel that they have no alternative except abortion in their circumstances. Change their circumstances and they would keep their pregnancy.

Adoption services should definitely be improved.

I won't tell what my gran would have said about you (and some of your 'friends' on here) :)

Night

the money currently spent on funding abortions can be invested in supporting the women who would otherwise feel that they have no alternative except to abort their pregnancy.

A few hundred quid each? Yeah, that'll go a long way towards resolving their housing, social & emotional, educational, parenting & childcare needs. Good plan

Glib answers aren't particularly helpful to your cause bumbley

So because it's cheaper for those women to just get rid of their pregnancy that's the way to go? It doesn't matter that they would keep that pregnancy if their circumstances were different? That sounds pretty callous to me. Doesn't sound like they have much of a 'choice' either.

No, not because it is cheaper, because it is their choice, not yours. You are again, wilfully misrepresenting what has been said.

prevention is where investment is needed

any investment takes taxpayers money

so that wont happen

No method is 100%.

I have had 3 kids and 3 miscarriages. Up until 6 years ago i would have said i would never have an abortion. My 3rd pregnancy was horrendous and i suffered severe depression, i have never felt so bad and caring for the other 2 kids was awful, i just felt unhinged the whole pregnancy and never felt like that with the first 2. Once i gave birth i was fine. It started more or less from a few weeks in. I then fell pregnant again (not planned) and had an early abortion (5 weeks) as i was scared the same thing would happen again. I cant say i was distraught i just felt relief i wasn't pregnant anymore and made sure i would never get pregnant again.

Do any of you that are totally pro choice have friends who use abortions as birth control?

No. I know 4 women who have had one off terminations. All contraceptive failures.

Being female and having fertility doesn't make you a decent person. And having terminations doesn't make you a bad one, either.

Do you not believe that people also murder/injure/abuse their children? Of course people believe that! I am in fact, in a job where I am trained to spot signs & reports my findings.

But I know that child abuse & child murder is worlds away from terminations. And in fact would go as far as to say that safe access to terminations is better than a woman bringing a potential punch bag in to the world. In fact, I know of 2 children in care who were taken from their mother (fathers cut & run). Now, I love those children to bits, but what they have been through in their young age (both under 5 when removed), they would have been better off not born at all.

I think you contradict yourself with these two sentences,
ikeaismylocal

Yes, and I agree that a woman should have the choice to take the baby out of her uterus in anyway she wishes at any point

but not to have the option to assure that the baby is dead before it comes out of the uterus.

I'll just repeat my answers to this one, as it's a long thread.

Do any of you that are totally pro choice have friends who use abortions as birth control?

I have one friend who's had six abortions. However, this is NOT 'using abortion as birth control' - a normally-fertile woman, using no contraception, who never carried full term, would be pregnant about 30 times in her life. Hell, I managed to get pregnant six times in ten years, and I have fertility issues!

If you count the MAP as abortion, I guess some women do use it often. In England, though, it is actually called birth control.

ikeaismylocal You simply CANNOT compare an unwanted pregnancy on breastfeeding, for heaven's sake.

I hope you never experience the loneliness & pain of an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe the baby has a right to try to survive outside the womb. And please tell me who will look after that baby if it isn't wanted by it's mother?

And I'm not sure why there is all this hand-wringing focus on late term (13-24 week) abortion - when they account for the tiny minority of terminations and are overwhelmingly carried out for conditions incompatible with independent life. Agree. Judging by the opinions on this thread, every termination is carried at 39 weeks because the woman wanted to go out partying & she was relived that she no longer had to be pregnant!!

Not one of those opinions takes into consideration that late term terminations account for LESS THAN 1% of terminations.

Nor do they take into account how difficult it is to find yourself unexpectedly pregnant, facing a termination.

Carrying my unwanted pregnancy to term would have completely changed who I am a person, as a mother, as a wife. I would not be sat here sane if I hadn't had the option of a safe termination at 9weeks. My existing children don't deserve a fucked up mother.

abortion as birth control for no good reason leaves me cold This is a myth, women don't actually use terminations as birth control (aside from that fact that birth control prevents a pregnancy ever taking place, and a termination, well, terminates it - 2 different things) and there is not 'no good reason' for a termination. Just because YOU don't like her reasons, doesn't mean that it is not a good reason!

YY
I've had an abortion and all my friends are aware of it.
I try not to judge people as I have no idea why they do what they do in their lives
If they are my friends I support them but don't have to support their views.
We are friends not clones so they often hold other viewpoints than mine
One of my very good friends is staunchly Catholic and very very ProLife. She has prayed for me. I appreciated being mentioned in her prayers although I also don't believe in God.

I knew an adult woman who stopped speaking to her aunt for over 10 years because she said veal was delicious

• I think you contradict yourself with these two sentences, ikeaismylocal

Yes, and I agree that a woman should have the choice to take the baby out of her uterus in anyway she wishes at any point

but not to have the option to assure that the baby is dead before it comes out of the uterus.*

I said this regarding very late"theoretical" abortions where the fetus would survive outside the womb with limited medical intervention, if the baby's only option for survival is the umbilical cord ( pre 23 weeks) I am pro-choice.

1)prevention of unwanted pregnancy/adoption
2)don't agree with back street abortions either
3)the money currently spent on funding abortions can be invested in supporting the women who would otherwise feel that they have no alternative except to abort their pregnancy.

1. Contraception can fail. People's circumstances can change (eg. relationship break-up/discovery that fetus has condition incompatible with life/massive changes to financial circumstances, etc. etc.). So how would you prevent 'unwanted pregnancy' in cases like these?
2. Neither do I, but I'm not stupid enough to believe abortion disappears when made unlawful. There is a lot of evidence to support this fact.
3. The money spent on abortions cannot compare with the money required to support a child to adulthood, or to support (emotionally or financially) a traumatised women who has been forced to have a baby against her will.

I'm confused as to what benefit anyone thinks taking a 24 week foetus and spending millions on long, painful treatments that may not work on it has? When the mother has requested an abortion. When it is highly likely to pass and if not have an incredibly difficult and probably short life. I don't think it's fair to put woman or foetus through that just for ideological reasons.
There are other ways of performing late term abortion where the mother doesn't have to give birth and the way the abortion is performed requires that the foetus to no longer have a heartbeat. Would you feel more comfortable with that? Although evidence shows it is of less emotional and physical benefit to the mother.

2)don't agree with back street abortions either
A contradiction Bumbley?
You don't agree with them but your solutions would lead to a return. Not really making sense there.

different, again, late term abortions are being discussed in relation to certain people's beliefs that they should be available to term for any reason. Not because people think "every termination is carried at 39 weeks because the woman wanted to go out partying" that doesn't even make sense because abortion isn't legal for such reasons.

birth control - not contraception.

"I'm confused as to what benefit anyone thinks taking a 24 week foetus and spending millions on long, painful treatments that may not work on it has? When the mother has requested an abortion. "

Some people don't place value on a life according to whether or not someone wants it.

"There are other ways of performing late term abortion where the mother doesn't have to give birth and the way the abortion is performed requires that the foetus to no longer have a heartbeat."

An abortion can not be carried out unless the foetus' heartbeat is stopped.(although this has failed on some occasions resulting in abortion survival cases) Why do you think someone objecting to abortion would feel more comfortable with dismantling a dead foetus in utero rather than extracting it intact? I think you've missed the fact that what they are objecting to is the termination of the foetus.

I would say a woman should have the choice to end the pregnancy at any point she shouldn't have the option to end the life of the fetus.

So once this little 20week baby/FOETUS (that you are wanting women to be forced to give birth to when they don't want a baby, otherwise, how else can you terminate a pregnancy, but not lose the life of the baby?) is old & strong enough to leave special care, what then?

Are you going to look after it?
Or shall we just add it to the hundreds of children already in state care, that no one wants?
How do are you suggesting they be forced to give birth? Vaginally? With an induced labour? Or a section that will scar for life. Or is that the idea? Punish them by making them undergo intensive surgery!
Do you know what impact giving birth to an unwanted child would have on the woman?
Do you know what being unwanted by your parent feels like, at 5, at 10, at 16, at 40?
Do you CARE? Because of you do, I would be happy to tell you!
Why should a woman be forced to give birth to a child they do not want & are not likely to keep?
Do you know what impact that will have on the baby?

All these do gooders who would rather the woman gave birth, are YOU happy to look after & raise the child?

bet not!

Not because people think "every termination is carried at 39 weeks because the woman wanted to go out partying" that doesn't even make sense because abortion isn't legal for such reasons.

Exactly, but the way you & other are carrying on, you are leading people to believe that is what you think!

different, aborting this 20 week old foetus that you are talking about is also going to require a surgical procedure.

Abortions may also have a negative impact on the woman.

There are many children who are neglected and/or rejected by their parents. It is horrible/scarring under any circumstances. This does not mean that their lives are worth less.

Yes, I would be happy to look after and raise an unwanted child. It's why we've been considering adoption.

There are many children who are neglected and/or rejected by their parents. It is horrible/scarring under any circumstances. This does not mean that their lives are worth less.
No, they're not. However, at 20 weeks, no matter what you believe, they weren't children.
At 20 weeks, the woman still had a chance (one which you would deny her) to abort that foetus. YOU want to remove the choices ergo you and your ilk would become responsible either for the abuse the child would suffer after the unwanted birth or the illness/death of the mother had she terminated illegally because the pro life campaigners had won. Ergo you have death and abuse on your hands.
You won't win, thank goodness, and the above are good and valid reasons as to why you shouldn't.

Different, it's been explained to you (and others) several times that people do not believe that.

I would absolutely adopt a baby, I have adopted siblings and I don't see that I need to be related through DNA to a person to be a family. The reason we have birth children rather than adopt children is purely down to cost.

I wouldn't disagree with a 20 week abortion as I have stated in earlier posts.

The abortions I personally feel are wrong are healthy babies with healthy mothers after "viability" which does mean possible viability with the need for a large amount of ongoing healthcare. I don't think healthcare should be given on the basis of how much a child is loved or wanted.

We are not just discussing 20/23 week old fetuses, we are discussing the possibility of full term babies being aborted.

To me there is a point when a fetus becomes a person, I'm not sure when I think that is, probably around 9ish weeks pregnant, I had my 12 week scan last week and the baby was sucking it's thumb and turning away from the pressure of the ultrasound probe, ds was jumping around my uterus on his 12 week scan. I accept that a 12-22 week old fetus is reliant on the mother and ultimately her wishes should come first but to end the life of a fetus when they no longer need the mother ( obviously the mother's womb is the ideal environment but there are other options) because the mother doesn't want the baby is in my opinion wrong.

Those of you who feel so strongly that a woman should have the choice to abort a fetus right up until the birth do you actively promote your opinion and try to get the laws changed? If you feel like a woman has no control over her own body I would imagine you spend your time doing something proactive about it rather than just arguing with bumbly on mumsnet who is never ever going to be close to agreeing with you.

Since this thread was started approx. 360 women have died worldwide due to unsafe illegal abortion. 9 women every hour, 1 woman every 7 minutes.
(assuming my calculations are correct)

Making abortions illegal or legal has no affect on the number of abortions that are performed each year what it does effect is the number of women that die or are permanently damaged because of unsafe dangerous procedures