To ask those of you who are pro life?

[Anonynony]

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

How old did you say you were Dawn?

It's funny, I had a discussion with Mumsnet at the time, and do you know what, they weren't for bullying.
Now, whilst we're at it, what were saying about personal remarks...

Agree with CaptChaos, Dawn. You did some necessary highlighting of another poster's stupid & cruel opinions.

I wouldn't have the patience to continue to engage, but good work on your part .

Dawn was just re-quoting one of your posts, bumbley.

Whereas, what you did to Baby, and a few others on that thread was cause them real trauma and upset over a real-life situation that was affecting them personally. It really doesn't compare.

You be anti-abortion if you like - but there's no need to doggedly post in a way that causes real distress to a women currently going through hell.

Do you mean personal insults Dawn? Like the ones that you and you alone have resorted to on this thread?

"good work' to a bully. Wow, what sort of messages are children being given at home if these are the attitudes of their parents?

The thing is Bumbley. I'm really not a bully and you are the only one that won't (please note won't, not can't) see it. You need to have a bully so that you can be the victim and have decided that as I'm vociferous and as you don't understand some of my posts (logical fallacies etc) I am going to play that role for you. It's a convenience for you. Thing is, I can see it for the obfuscatory tactic that it is, and I'm just not bothered, but if it helps, you keep going.

Out of context Sabrina, several times over. That is unnecessary and bullying and would not be tolerated on any other thread or if the roles were reversed (as another poster on that thread pointed out) The personal insults she made added to her deletion count too.

I did post to baby and it is still on that thread.

Anyway, this thread isn't about me. Why don't we get back the OP?

Of course it wasn't bullying Dawn! It was just a reminder of the basic mindset of a particular poster. It was important to keep reminding people that that belief underpinned the rest of it.

You're not going to convince people who hate women that women are human beings with rights and responsibilities. It seems to be fundamental to them. Let's face it, forced birthers do hate women, they also don't give much of a stuff about babies either once they're born, especially the ones in the USA. The scary thing is that those 'pastors' are bringing their 'ministries' to the UK, so I suppose it's just a matter of time before the first assaults on these women they are there to 'save' happen.

No bumbley the thread isn't about you, but you do a good job of trying to make it about you by crying Wolf over non existent bullying.

Many posters are simply refusing to engage with you now as you are always on these threads and your pathetic attempts at expressing sympathy are sickening when the reality is you would force these women to continue with pregnancies they don't want or that cause them mental and physical suffering.

Btw I am pleased you don't have daughters given your views, but if you did and one of them wanted an abortion what would you do?

22:25 Not sure why you think you have the right to tell people what they can and can't post. You really need to get over yourself.

22:41 Anyway, this thread isn't about me. Why don't we get back the OP?

Interesting juxtaposition of suggestions, there. The bluster's not proving terribly effective these days, is it?

Bumbley keeps implying that the only reason women don't have late (post 24 week) abortions is because they're not allowed to. The suggestion is that if they could, women would be flocking to have them. In countries where abortion is not legally available, but where women nevertheless endanger their lives to have risky backstreet procedures, I wonder how many deal with their unwanted pregnancies at an early stage and how many just bumble along until the final stages and then seek a termination in the final months. Not many, I'll wager. Women with unwanted pregnancies generally tend to deal with them as early as possible.

I really don't buy this suggestion that if women were allowed to terminate after 24 weeks for any reason at all, there would be hordes of women queueing up for the opportunity. This is typical anti-abortionist rhetoric and is fundamentally misogynistic.

Bumbly I honestly do think you are being quoted from the other thread because you wrap yourself up in a cloak of self righteousness and opinionated hectoring that makes this so easy to remember.

You have no regard for others opinions or situations at all apart from the usual so sorry at situations outlined here of real difficulty that you still fail to address.

Instead you bang on about the dangers of hoards of women aborting full term healthy foetuses.

You don't agree with abortion full stop. That's fine for you but you can't then blinker yourself to others in real life need.

It's not good enough to just be sorry or you are one step away from the placard waving twats outside clinics.

If all unwanted pregnancies went to term the care system would collapse. The health service would collapse. The mental Heath service would collapse.

If sbortion was banned thousands of women would die in back street abortions.

That's the real reality.

Bumbly I honestly do think you are being quoted from the other thread because you wrap yourself up in a cloak of self righteousness and opinionated hectoring that makes this so easy to remember.

You have no regard for others opinions or situations at all apart from the usual so sorry at situations outlined here of real difficulty that you still fail to address.

Instead you bang on about the dangers of hoards of women aborting full term healthy foetuses.

You don't agree with abortion full stop. That's fine for you but you can't then blinker yourself to others in real life need.

It's not good enough to just be sorry or you are one step away from the placard waving twats outside clinics.

If all unwanted pregnancies went to term the care system would collapse. The health service would collapse. The mental Heath service would collapse.

If sbortion was banned thousands of women would die in back street abortions.

That's the real reality.

In countries where you can have 3rd term abortions the amount of women having them is almost negligible it is so small. But what it does do is safeguard women from being so desperate they attempt home abortions or suicide. Is that not more important?

I disagree that it was out of context, bumbley.

Agree with everyone else - We've all seen bumbley traumatising other women all too often on these threads.

If we truly want to preserve a woman’s right to choose what to do with her body, we need to accept that sometimes women will abort for reasons we might not agree with. Really, being pro-choice doesn’t mean thinking every abortion is a good idea. It means realizing that the only person who should truly have the right to determine whether it’s a good idea is the mother, and protecting her rights means allowing her to make decisions we might not necessarily support.

And this is why the 'rape exception' is so insidious, so much so that lawmakers and people quite commonly trot it out as 'of course, that's different, that's not even up for discussion', without realising that this implicitly starts to make subjective value judgements about Reasons That Are Good Enough (Which Means Some Reasons Aren't Good Enough).

Of course rape = of course there are good reasons and bad reasons and I, not the pregnant woman, will judge which is which.

If you believe that abortion is the murder of a human person, there can be no 'rape exception'. If you think pregnancy after rape is a genuinely valid reason to seek abortion, then you accept that there are 1. reasons that lie entirely with the woman's right to choose 2. that should be preserved in law 3. that mean this right supercedes that of the fetal right to life. Ironically, this makes such a person rather pro-choice. Also a somewhat pompous judgemental twat for deciding that they are the ones who can decide which Reasons Are Good Enough For Her.

I have no comprehension of women who hate women. Is it a jealousy thing? Why? Why would you be so cruel to a set of people already subjugated? One of the most important factors in the growth of the women's movement was the ability to control our own fertility and attempts to to limit that are purely and simply a 'gambit to keep women in their place in the guise of religious moralism.'

(MiT Biology student).

Oh dear - did the bully card get played - what a shock

when caught out retreat to 'you are a bully' position

surprisingly I remember the previous thread the same way as Dawn - but you will probably dismiss that as cliquey or bullying or lies

Thing is Dawn, most bullies don't think they are bullies.

capt, actually that wasn't a reminder of my mindset. It was comment taken out of context and someone had made a similar one earlier in that thread that wasn't used against them repeatedly.

5mad, I guess it's easy for you to say that seeing as you're not on this end of it.

There are other people with pro-life opinions on this thread. In fact, the thread specifically asked for the opinions of pro-lifers. So there are plenty of other people for you to have a go at.

raven, It's was a question. Not an order. If you want to keep talking about me you can but the thread isn't about me and I didn't think you liked it being derailed.

That's the thing though Maid, abortion after rape or incest is viewed as 'ok, not up for discussion' because women don't choose to be raped and young women don't choose incest, so we can't punish them further by making them have their babies. However, women who have consensual sex and become pregnant, well, they're just irresponsible sluts aren't they? They should be punished, and the best way to punish them is by making them give birth to a child they never wanted.

Forced birth is all about punishing women.

Bumbley this may not have occured to you, but about half a dozen people have told you that I am not a bully and neither have I been bullying, and yet you continue to call me a bully and accuse me of bullying, which rather means, erm, you're bullying me.

I make no apology for posting this on any abortion-related thread I encounter, because I think it's important for those of us who are fortunate enough to live in countries where terminations are relatively accessible to remember what it's like in countries where they're unlawful. Abortion doesn't just 'go away' because it's not legally available...

from wikipedia - World Health Organisation statistics abut unsafe abortions:-

The World Health Organization (WHO) published an estimate that in 2003 approximately 42 million pregnancies were voluntarily terminated, of which 20 million were unsafe.[8] According to WHO and Guttmacher, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease (incomplete abortion, infection (sepsis), haemorrhage, and injury to the internal organs, such as puncturing or tearing of the uterus). They also concluded abortion is safer in countries where it's legal, but dangerous in countries where it's outlawed and performed clandestinely.

Sobering reading Gideon thank you for posting that.

20 million unsafe abortions.

68,000 women dead

between 2 and 7 million with long-term complications.

Each year.

It makes you realise how very lucky we are in the UK.

twofingers Those figures are both tragic and horrifying. However, you are right and people should be aware, Thank you for posting them.