To ask those of you who are pro life?

[Anonynony]

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

And by your reckoning it is ok to kill a baby of the same gestation id it is within the mother's body but not ok if it is without?
See the above post about philosophical questioning.
Autonomy means total autonomy.

There's a poster which says: If you're pro-life with limitations, then you're pro-choice with limitations.

Logically, this is true; it's a pity that discussions tend to polarise around the 'no limits' factions.

I am pro-choice without limits, but as squeamish as some others about the idea of free-choice termination up to term. I have to support that option ideologically but, in practice, am OK with the laws & exceptions we have now. (I'd prefer the time limit to go back up to 28 weeks.) I just think that a pregnant woman choosing termination at 37 weeks must have some awful problems, therefore should be helped to control one very big aspect of her life.

dawn you are a hypocrite, despite asking us to stop the discussion for the sake of another poster you have contined to post. I think you were wrong and patronising to ask for the thread to be stopped in the first place but to then merrily continue to post is very rude.

I think people who argue that you either respect the right for a woman to choose what happens in her own body or you don't respect the right for a woman to choose what happens in her own body, so theoretically a 3rd trimester abortion, and abortion on the babies due date for reasons such as the fetus was a girl and the mother wanted a boy or the mother decided she didn't want a baby after all or that the mother had been offered a great last minute holiday and couldn't take a baby, or the mother wanted to go on big brother. It doesn't matter that it is illegal and never happens, I find it hard to respect the opinions of people who think it is ok to stop the life of a perfectly viable baby, I'm not talking about a baby at 23 weeks who would need months, years or a lifetime of care, I'm talking about 8 pound newborns who could survive perfectly well in the outside world. Those of you who say what if the woman doesn't want the baby, well then she should give it away, as should the terrible parents who abuse, neglect or kill their children.

It is tahnkfully all theoretical in the UK, but even knowing that some of you theoretically support the idea of killing a full term baby just because it happens to be in the mother's womb rather than removing the baby makes me feel sick.

I think extreme ideas from either side make their argument seem invalid, when pro-life supporters claim that the morning after pill or IVF is abortion and wrong I loose any respect for their point of veiw, the same when pro-choice supporters say that they believe a full term baby should be killed if the mother fancies that choice.

I personally think the previous poster who said they were pro-choice within the guidlines of the law is how I would also describe myself (UK law not Swedish law which is where I live) I feel slightly uneasy about the very late abortions where the baby could possibly survive but apart from that I think the law is in line with what I feel is morelly right.

There's a poster which says: If you're pro-life with limitations, then you're pro-choice with limitations

Yep. Only one consistent pro-life position, only one consistent pro-choice position. Very few people bear either out in reality.

Fifi the stats say that late/term abortions are done for horrific circumstances.

Some posters here have been denied early abortions and have been forced to carry dead/severely disabused babies by countries like Ireland.

That's is horrific.

dawn you are a hypocrite, despite asking us to stop the discussion for the sake of another poster you have contined to post. I think you were wrong and patronising to ask for the thread to be stopped in the first place but to then merrily continue to post is very rude.
No dear, I'd have stopped posting if everybody else had. I rather think you misunderstand the meaning of hypocrite, too, but there you go.

As for your other arguments, as you pointed out, they are null and void. Not one of us has said we are okay with killing a child. Not one of us. If you can't comprehend the discussion, and a number of you appear to be in the same boat, then really, don't join in until you are able to keep up.

Well if you took the lean and followed your own advice other people might have followed you. If I felt that something I was doing was fundermentally wrong I wouldn't continue doing it just because everyone else was doing it.

Yes people have said that killing a full term baby whilst it is in the mother's uterus is 100% her choice. To me a wiggling, hiccuping, smiling 37 week old fetus is a child.

Dawn sorry didn't see your post on stopping the thread and I agree with you.

ikeaismylocal

How many women do you actually know who sbortion a late pregnancy because they want to go in holiday or simply can't be arsed? ( not in the daily mail)

I support a woman's right to have autonomy over her body at all times.

You either support choice or you don't.

If you want the drama factor then look at the incidence of deaths of women around the world both birthing and aborting.

Stop focusing on scenarios that don't exist, there are plenty of horrific ones that actually do.

If I felt that something I was doing was fundermentally (sic) wrong I wouldn't continue doing it just because everyone else was doing it.
But you did.

I don't know any women that have had a late abortion because they want to go on holiday, I am not talking about the real chance that your ideas might somehow become law and women will start aborting full term babies for small reasons, I am saying that I think the attitude that it would be ok to do so, as you have argued is vile. I would have classed myself as pro choice before reading some opinions that state that to be pro-choice is to support a woman's right to abort for any reason at any time.

DO you believe that women should have the option to abort because they only want male babies?

For those who don't believe that women should have bodily autonomy at all times, when else should they not? If a woman can be forced to carry a child to term against her express wishes and needs, should we be able to experiment on women? Remove their organs when they are needed by another living thing? When do women get their autonomy back? At birth? After a suitable stab at BF?

If you want to stop women having any control over their bodies for periods of their lives, and don't kid yourself, you do, what other anti woman ideals do you subscribe to?

DO you believe that women should have the option to abort because they only want male babies?

Yes, I believe in abortion at any time, for any reason.

If I felt that something I was doing was fundermentally (sic) wrong I wouldn't continue doing it just because everyone else was doing it.
But you did.

No, I never believed it was wrong to post opinions about abortion on an open family forum because other forum members who were having a very hard time personally might read those opinions. You stated that you did believe it was wrong to continue posting

Most of you have read Baby's post. Most of you now know what she is going through. Despite that you still continue to post. I know she doesn't have to read the thread, but she's distressed, hormonal and is horribly drawn to these threads at the moment. She can't help it. But the rest of you can. I would ask that you leave it here now, just because we are all at heart (hopefully) decent human beings who care about another. Because in actual fact we are a community who should be able to put aside our differences to protect one of our own.

despite this you still continue to post I actually left the thread at that point, you on the other hand did continue to post because everyone else was, how very kind and decent of you.

For those who don't believe that women should have bodily autonomy at all times, when else should they not? If a woman can be forced to carry a child to term against her express wishes

I believe a woman should have the option to end her pregnancy at any time, in the later stages by inducing birth, I don't believe a woman should have the right to end a healthy fetus' life before the induced birth.

So Ikea what other times do you believe a woman should have all choice taken away from her?

I am not completely pro life like many on here.

If there is a medical reason I think it's more than acceptable to terminate but I do judge those who don't actively use contraception and then are shocked when pregnant and want to terminate it just seems so selfish to me.

Having said that I don't think I'd stop being friends with someone but I would have a different view of them from now on. If they had a medical termination I'd feel they were brave, because it mustn't have been an easy decision.

I believe a woman (or man) should have all choice taken away from them if they wish to hurt or kill another living being. To me a near term baby is a living being in the same way a 2 day old baby is a living being. a baby on it's due date feels the same pain and has the same potential as a 2 day old baby, if the location (the mother's uterus) is a problem then by all means have an induction but I feel it is wrong to kill a fetus and then have an induction at such a late stage.

I actually left the thread at that point, you on the other hand did continue to post because everyone else was, how very kind and decent of you.
Yes. I did. I feel no shame in having done so.
Is throwing the thread off course helping your case? Is trying to make me look bad helping your case?

women will start aborting full term babies for small reasons

They won't, though, will they? Any woman who seeks a late-term abortion for reasons other than Ground 4 has got issues. Could be all sorts of issues, personal or external; but she'd have strong cause - strong enough to override her hormones & instincts, which are by that stage driving her thoughts & behaviours towards birth.

I'm going to add another personal note to the argument for survival on behalf of the foetus/child. Dawn mentioned something similar. In my opinion, I shouldn't have been born. This is not a waah-waah post, I've got a life and I live it, but my parents weren't ready for me either emotionally or financially. Their unreadiness has adversely affected me, through childhood and beyond. They should have started their family when the younger set of siblings were born (my 'set' were contraceptive failures.) Absolutely no-one's life was enhanced by the births of my nearest siblings & me: not ours, and certainly not our parents. Had we not been born, we simply wouldn't exist and the family would have been happier.

living being was the wrong word, human being not an animal type being.

So, you believe a woman has no rights over her own body, Ikea.

I'm not going to debate the moral/emotional aspects of abortion - suffice to say, I'm very pro-choice

But on the practical side, I have a question for the pro-lifers:

Bearing in mind there are around 4000 adoptions from care per year, and a similar number of waiting prospective parents, there are already far more waiting children than there are parents for AND you're talking about making abortion illegal so potetially you are looking at many thousands of women choosing adoption every single year

How exactly do you think this will work?

Bearing in mind that there's also around a massive shortage of foster homes

Because it seems to me that it's not enough to just want new abortion legislation without figuring out how to deal with the outcome of it

Are you looking at big tax rises to fund orphanages? Shipping babies to America? How exactly are we going to pay for thousands of babies without parents - no birth parents, no foster parents, no adoptive parents?

Could be all sorts of issues, personal or external; but she'd have strong cause - strong enough to override her hormones & instincts, which are by that stage driving her thoughts & behaviours towards birth. Would you also say the same about mother's who kill their children? Is it ok to end the life of your offspring just because you have personal issues? I would say that this is exactly the reason it should be illegal to end the life of a near term fetus because some women's hormones don't do that lovely nesting introspective focusing on birth thing, some women's hormones make them feel desperate and afraid and like they will not cope with motherhood.

Mistake of mine - there won't be thousands of women choosing adoption. It's not even legally possible to choose adoption anyway, it's only possible to choose the care system, and tthousands more babies certainly won't be getting adopted to non-existant parents

What i mean by my last post is - a motehr cannot demand or guaruntee an adoption. It is not legally within her control. It's up to SS and the courts and available parents etc