To ask those of you who are pro life?

[Anonynony]

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

Ikea, what if the woman doesn't want the baby?

I believe we should have no legal time limit on abortion. It is stupid to have an arbitrary cut off and women should not be forced to have children they do not want to.
The amount of people having late term abortions would be very, very low as it is in countries where there is no limit. It would stop the rare but horrible stories of women performing late at home abortions on themselves or committing suicide.

To answer the points about smoking, drinking & taking drugs:

I packed in all of my bad habits when pregnant, apart from the odd glass of wine. My best friend continued to smoke one cigarette a day throughout her first pregnancy - I don't think she enjoyed it much, but equally I very much doubt it did her twins any harm at all.

I didn't judge her, & I was very relaxed about having the occasional drink myself - but both of us made significant lifestyle changes during pregnancy & were quite happy to do so.

She'd undoubtedly have disapproved if I'd sunk a bottle of vodka every day & I'd have been equally unimpressed if she'd continued to chuff through 40 Marlboro a day.

However, it's one thing to be a bit sniffy or disapproving about someone's choices in pregnancy, be it their half glass of champagne at a family wedding, a couple of drags on a spliff at a party, or insistence on competitive 3 day eventing until 6 months.

It's quite another to seek to legislate for control of other women's bodies. So same answer as for abortion really - I made certain choices myself, for myself & for my future child; that does not give me a right to restrict anyone else's bodily autonomy.

In answer the op I would find it difficult but the other way around. I would struggle to be friends with an anti choice person. To be anti choice is misogynistic and anti a free society in my opinion.

A woman not wanting the baby is a seperate issue to her right to choose not to be pregnant.

Should a woman's desire to not have a baby outweigh the right of a viable fetus to a chance of life? What if a woman decides she doesn't want a baby when the baby is 2 weeks old? 2 years? What if your mother decides she doesn't want you?

I guess I just find it hard to think that a baby who has a pretty good chance of surviving has no rights at all to be considered.

Not that either's rights trump the other but just that the foetus / baby surely has to acquire some right to be considered at some point and for me the point of viability seems significant.

Surely most people who would be distressed by continuing a pregnancy would have decided to terminate way earlier than 22weeks anyway and I did say that I thought that services should be geared up to support early termination.

I in no way want to see women forced into unwanted pregnancies but it is puzzling on a practical level to work in a NICU trying to save 24 wk babies and know that others same gestation are being terminated in a nearby theatre. (Not my current job BTW)

In reality although this issue appears morally black and white to many people (foetus has no rights til term vs foetus has full rights from conception) in the real world a compromise solution like the current uk law or a slight modification is what Is needed.

There are plenty of us here that has happened to, ikea. Personally, I don't think my mother should have had children, the abuse I have suffered is such that even at the tender age of 55 I have never recovered. I still believe, despite being Dr. Dawndonna, that I am short, fat, thick and ugly. She only aborted one foetus, and although I'm happy enough to be here now, it would have saved sixteen years of hell. That's what happens when you force women to have children they don't want, they get resented, abused and all sorts, but hey, your right to a moral stance that doesn't actually affect you is far greater, isn't it.

Haven't read the whole thread but I am both pro life (for Myself) and pro choice. For me I believe life starts at conception. I chose not to have a abortion even when I was medically advised to as my life was at risk and my baby given little chance of survival. That was my choice and it was my right to make that decision. For me personally I could not have lived with making any other.
Equally my best friend had a abortion at 9 weeks and I went with her and held her hand. It was the right choice for her, and I am her friend, she needed my support, it wasn't about me or my personal feelings.
I don't judge her or anyone else for that matter. I don't claim that I am right in what I feel, others feel differently and they are no less right than me. It is such a personal decision.

There are choices which are not kill the baby or keep the baby and abuse it, a newborn baby would find an adoptive home very easily, they would then have parents who wanted them, the woman would be childless and the baby would be given a chance.

Ikea, whilst the foetus is in utero I believe the woman's wishes should come first. If that woman does not want to have the baby and wishes to terminate the pregnancy knowing what an abortion entails (stopping the heart of the foetus) well then that is up to her. I don't understand what you expect to happen in the situation you suggest where the pregnancy is induced, the baby, if survives, goes to SCBU, then what?

Ikea that is where you are wrong - have a look at adoption statistics, adoptive homes are not found very easily. It is totally naive to think that adoption is the perfect solution to unwanted pregnancies.

Okay.
Most of you have read Baby's post. Most of you now know what she is going through. Despite that you still continue to post. I know she doesn't have to read the thread, but she's distressed, hormonal and is horribly drawn to these threads at the moment. She can't help it. But the rest of you can. I would ask that you leave it here now, just because we are all at heart (hopefully) decent human beings who care about another. Because in actual fact we are a community who should be able to put aside our differences to protect one of our own.
Anybody willing to stop it here? Please.

I'm pro choice to a point- I know of someone (a colleague's close friend) who went to America (some states allow late abortions under certain conditions) and lied that she had been raped to abort twins at 27 weeks. I was pregnant when I found out and it haunted me for weeks. She had been having an affair with a married man and hoped the pregnancy would lure him away from his wife. It didn't.
I still think it is ultimately the woman's choice but it doesn't mean that it can't make us feel uncomfortable.

Dawn - it is my fault, as you have said I am drawn to these threads, I can't help it. I guess I see them as a way to release some anger and frustration. I have continued to pose questions and the other posters have responded with their point of view.

I can't and don't expect people to censor their discussions on an online forum just because someone might take offense. Mumsnet would be pretty dull if that were the case I'm going to hide this thread now anyway.

Baby - I really hope that nothing I have said has caused you added distress.
Even if I think that the uk limit should be slightly lowered I did make it clear in that post that I still very much support the current exceptions for medical reasons related to the mother or baby including mental health.
I'm sure it is very different to make a choice to carry a pregnancy to term with a very ill baby versus not having a choice.
I really feel for you and I hope and pray that you are able to find some peace in this really hard situation.

I personally would not have had an abortion, (am 50 now so not likely to be in the position ever again), but I have close and much loved friends who have had, and I understand why they did it, even though I would have not done the same thing in their circumstances. It certainly didn't have an impact on our friendship. However, I did once work with someone who had had an abortion at 7 months, ( a couple of years before the age limit was changed) and while I could see she had been very traumatised by it, i did find it hard to deal with. Wished she hadn't told me actually. I felt rather angry that she hadn't been supported more by medics to wait the couple of months and have her baby adopted, and it made me support the age limit being lowered. It did upset me a lot actually. I don't know how I would have felt if she had been a good friend. Probably terribly sorry for her, but I would have found it very hard to cope with.

I wouldn't know if anyone has. Noone's ever told me. They know my pro-life stance. I'm not militant about it but if someone told me and the reasons were ones of it being an inconvenient time etc, I have to admit I'd be really disappointed and it would affect my view of them. I wouldn't tell them so, cut them off or anything silly like that though.

'It's quite another to seek to legislate for control of other women's bodies. So same answer as for abortion really - I made certain choices myself, for myself & for my future child; that does not give me a right to restrict anyone else's bodily autonomy.'

Raven, don't twist my words. I never said I wish to 'seek to legislate control over womens bodies', I stated if you believe in the woman having full choice over her body you must agree that means with regards to EVERYTHING, not just pick and choose whats acceptable and whats not to suit your preferences/social acceptability meter. If your argument for abortion for any reason at all and at all stages is that its the womans body and her choice, you must also argue that a woman can consume whatever substances she likes during pregnancy as its HER CHOICE and her body. As you say, her right to choose is more important than the fetus and its wellbeing. To try and counter this argument with some long winded post about what you and your friend would sniff your noses at each other for during pregnancy is just ridiculous, tbf.

Obviously it was too much to ask.

I really appreciate your posts on this thread, Baby, and am beyond sorry you're having to go through this. No wonder you're angry. Your measured opinion is really admirable! I'm sure you've given the whole topic an incredible amount of thought - but it would have been easy to transfer personal anger to the general issue. You haven't. Props

Baby

Dawn, I knew you'd try to pull that stunt again. I had you in mind when I wrote this above:

"I'd just like to draw attention to the title of this thread - it is a question addressed to pro-lifers so it should be obvious that there will be opinions on this thread which some people may find offensive or upsetting. I am worried that people will starting asking others to censor their opinions at the risk of upsetting other people or accuse people of being insensitive because they are sharing their opinions when they have been asked to."

BabyFaced clearly does not need you to speak on her behalf.

Dawn, I dont believe its appropriate to try and close down a discussion thread on the basis you think it is upsetting another poster.

I completely agree 22. She has used this tactic before to try to bully people off threads.

Lol at dawn being the bully, you are the poster that is like a dog with a bone on these threads Bumbley I am right in thinking you have daughters? I find it quite horrifying that you have such misogynistic views and hope you don't impose them on them. What if one of your daughter's gets pregnant in a few years and wants an abortion? Will you judge her? Or would you support her and help her?