To wonder where all the normal, single men are?

[Needsmorecake]

because, sure as hell, they are not within a 50 mile radius of me.

This comes off the back of being let down again. I was meant to have a date tomorrow, now i do not.

Lovely man, 40, deputy head of an ' outstanding school' Not only did he send me the most 'penisey' photo, where even in jogging bottoms his cock felt the need to make its presence known, but, after some internet reasearch, i found he had two facebook accounts, one of which he is only friends with very young, very naked, eastern women.

I cancelled the date, clearly he is nuts. However, this seems to be the case more often than not, and its so very very tiring.

Ive been single for 5.5 years, i dont want to remarry, but id just like someone, it seems so impossible.

I think the internet draws out a certain sort of woman hater who wouldn't have the brass neck to actually do anything in real life. From behind a screen is a perfect way for the Haters to live out their dark fantasies.
It's a bit like when I was young and used to walk home alone from clubs late at night. I would sometimes get a man sort of walking too close, actually seeming to try and scare me.
One night a man walked right up behind me and said "arn't you scared?" and I whirled round, and snarled "No. Arn't you?" He walked off, but I think he was getting his kicks from trying to intimidate me.
He was very "normal" looking too. I have also had a very "naice" middle class man scream abuse at me in the street when I was with baby ds, obviously thinking he could get away with it.
(I happened to know that he worked in the same place as a neighbour of mine, so I told her about it, knowing she would spread the word like wildfire )
It's weird. We get told off on MN for saying things like WTF is wrong with men?? But I honestly can't imagine a world where women hurl vicious abuse at unknown men, just to feel some power.
It's like if you look at a blog by a woman. If there is even the slightest feminist slant, however gentle, there will be the vilest comments underneath. When I first encountered this it used to shock me. Now I just wonder if any of the men I know in RL are doing this kind of thing. It makes me feel paranoid about men in general.

Do some volunteering, join a club, go to evening classes? I don't know. But you're much more likely to click with someone who has a similar interest than a random bloke on a dating site.

Nothing to lose and even if you don't find the man of your dreams, you might make some new friends, who then might have some single friends. Expand your horizons.

Basically, if you're single, and want a relationship, advice is:

Stop looking, it will come to you.
or
Try online dating.

If you say you've tried OD, and just met an assortment of lowlifes and liars, either you're misprepresenting it/being unfairly negative, or it's something you're projecting. Or you're not messaging the right people.

Or you should give up and join a club, or do evening classes.

Not everyone lives in the sort of urban areas where clubs/classes are prevalent though! or has childcare available to cover it (most LPs don't have people on tap to babysit).

I live in Greater London, I have teenage children, however, I am out at work for 12 hours a day already, the last thing I want to do in the evenings is spend another 2 or 3 hours out at a club or class.

I guess I should just accept my spinster's fate...!

I've had different experiences - I've come across more 'weird' men in RL than online.

When I say 'in RL' I include men who are doctors and others I've met in the workplace, who seemed normal then turned out to be just... not!
I could write a book on bad dates.
Most of these guys weren't bad blokes as such, just not in the 'nice, normal' bracket. For example they turned out to take recreational drugs too much, or drink too much, or put porn on when I was expecting to watch an ordinary DVD... on the first date... etc etc.

I've had 2 Online dates so far. One was a nice guy I met through Facebook (friend of a FB friend), just a bit too geeky for me. Well, he couldn't make eye contact for half an hour. But he was quite sweet and paid for the drinks.
The 2nd seemed nice and normal then soon brought the convo round to sex - it seemed that despite paying for Match.com what he really wanted was a FWB. He kindly declared that I was ''too respectable'' for him which I think was actually a compliment.

A 3rd guy messaged me lots on Tinder but when it came to an actual date called it off. He also made some crude comment about my job (i'm a nurse). But I'm messaging other guys who so far seem ok and may be about to go on another date..

As for ''nice, normal and single'' - well I'm a nice, single woman, but am I ''normal''?? Well I'm not sure, what is normal anyway? Who fits that description?

I wonder if it makes a difference which site you use? I don't really recognise all these experiences either.

I did OD through a paid for site, but a small local one, not a big national. IT was for people in my county.

I did get a few much older/younger men just looking for sex, but they did ask politely and were not offensive, and def. no cockshots or graphic descriptions. And they were a minority.

Messaged a few for a while - eventually twigged that they weren't really interested in me, just stringing me along, couldn't get them to commit to actually meeting up. Probably ok guys, just hedging their bets a bit.

Met two men. One was a really nice chap, met him about 4 times, but he wasn't right for me, although he was keen. The other suited me down to a tee (albeit not perfect and with a bit of emotional baggage, hey, I'm not perfect either and got my own baggage) and we now live together and are very happy.

Try different sites?

Velvet, I'm also a man who wouldn't approach you, not because I'm shy, but because that can give some women the creeps. One of my female friends used to work in a pub, and after her final shift she came and sat with me for a drink. I learned that I was almost the only bloke who hadn't tried to chat her up. I honestly thought you shouldn't try to chat staff up and told her so, but no, it appears I'm in the minority.

It's a blatant lack of respect. Yes, I am single, but there's a damn good reason for that. :o

I think as time goes on, the 'normal' men disappear off the market and so there's a larger proportion of fuckwits about.

I know loads of attractive single women. But only two single blokes. One has a GREAT job but can barely speak to a girl. He also has absolutely no hobbies or interests other than the computer. The other has recently come out of prison for possesion with intent to supply. Form an orderly queue ladies!

Success here online- met all forms of low life before lucky enough to meet dh. So hard to see the wood from the trees as can take literally years before they show their true colour.

Some of the things that set dh apart immediately were being positive after his divorce, not slagging off xwife despite affair and taking him to cleaners, kindness to his family, being educated and much brighter than me. Had to kiss so many frogs and just assumed he would be another one- took me five years to trust him and marry him but here I am 46 married 2nd time round to my honest, family orientated successful dh who is a man in every way. DO NOT GIVE UP!!

My bit about the sex thing was from this 'There is something fundamentally wrong with your claim that you were having sex doggy style and he had the nerve to ask for guidance. I don't think you can see what was going on there. You were looking for meaning where it did not exist'

who seems to tihnk there is something wrong with me for not wanting that. bollocks to that, and thats why i responded ( couldnt do so earlier as i was working)

Im also rather offended at the ' wrong choices, looking too hard, must be coming across as desperate' when its clear im the one doing the dumping in most cases. i also think ive been mixed up with random, as ive not had any 10 month relationship and neither have i blamed the mothers.

I talk to people in rl all the time, the men that have chatted me up, two were buying petrol together, and chatted me up in the shop and one was a gas man in my house ( he was married) thats it.

Im also not sure i want a shy man, frankly id eat him alive. I also have itallian heritage and i know my own mind. I do not want to walk all over someone. Confidence is sexy, arrogance is not. But i cant be with someone shy as, well, it bugs the shit out of me and i dont like feeling like im the one doing all the running/ organising/ talking etc etc, which is what happens when i do try to date shy men ( because, i have tried)

Hogwash far too many to go into and am about to head out (I socialise, even though I never meet any single women that way either).

I made the virgin OD mistake of replying a polite "thanks but no thanks" to women who messaged me when I first started and got messages back along the lines of: "well fuck you! you obviously think you're god's gift and can afford to be picky. have you looked in the mirror you ugly fucker?"

To be fair, I'm merely average looking, but I thought that was a bit harsh.

My favourite was the first woman I actually met. And had several dates with which then turned sexual. It all seemed to be going well. Then she dumped me to go back to her previous boyfriend and admitted she only went out with me and slept with me to see if she still had feelings for her boyfriend, which she had. This being a boyfriend who had cheated on her twice before and who she'd left before. Three months later she turned up on my door begging for another chance telling me I was the only guy who'd ever treated her well and she'd made a dreadful mistake. I said "thanks, but no thanks". And she then promptly stalked me, even moving into the same very small cul-de-sac as me!

Don't confuse shy with wall flower. Or boring.

By shy I mean the kind of man who might be great fun, clever, funny, intersesting etc etc but just not necessarily confident to aproach women, either online or in RL.

In fact, from what you've written, that might be just the kind of man you're looking for. You know, someone great but who doesn't necessarily throw himself right in your face with his cock out shouting "hey baby do you want some?"

Once you've got to know them they may not well be shy. They might make you laugh like a drain and treat you with respect and love. Which is what you want I assume?

If hes too shy not to approach women online, then... ???

the last guy i dated for, i dont know, 6 weeks or so, was shy. He said he felt less shy with me, but i still had to order his drinks and he said how he struggles with social situations, and didnt really feel comftable going into restaurants/cinema etc. He would never go to a gig, a pub, meet new friends. it ruled out too much of my life.

The ' you will have to help me' doggy sex one, was shy.

Ive a list of them in fact. Im not some alpha male chasing wally... and just because someone is shy doesnt mean they dont behave in the same way. Some of the most hurtful moments have come from really shy men

I had one message I thought was fun - it was from a gorgeous Italian stud - unfortunately it was a critique of my profile and that I was not going to get a man by showing such strong opinions and fire in me and that I should dumb down and not put my degree on there as men would be scared off by my intelligence. The opinions was a disclaimer at the bottom which said "If you are lying, cheating, alcoholic, arrogant, violent, married or still living with your mother then I've already dated you, please click away now". I did actually get a few messages off that and a lot saying they were not my type but they liked my profile and just wanted to wish me luck and hope I find someone special.

Maybe you approach him?

But anyway, I am stepping away from this thread, I have spent a long time offering advice, personal experience, sympathy and suggestions. All of which have either been ignored or dismissed because you have, rightly or wrongly, got yourself into a totally negative and defensive mindset which I'm finding quite hard work now to be honest.

Good luck. I hope you find someone wonderful

Bit - ive said i message lots, i send loads of first messages, i never get any response. I sent 8 yesterday, not one reply.

Its not that im trying to be difficult, its just that im already doing what you are saying.

Have you ladies tried one of the personal introduction agencies that make a genuine effort to match up suitable candidates?
They charge a higher fee of course but I would have thought that weeded out the cock-wavers.
Just a thought...

Men are so clueless, I don't know of any woman who wants to see a picture of a guy's penis but they still do it anyway! Technology has really increased the ways in which men can show themselves up as dumb. When I was single a few years ago I couldn't believe how many guys who I would be either about to go on a first date with or I had gone on one date with, would send me cringeworthy, crass, crude "sext" messages. It really just confirmed for me that too many men have no idea how to talk to a woman or understand how a woman would want to talked to.

"Men are so clueless..."

Women always generalise.

SOME men are so clueless. Not you Tiggy. I am sure you have never sent a cock shot.

I've got a date Friday. He seems nice, but I'm the first to admit I'm clueless.

I think what I am uncomfortable about in any context is blame. It isn't the woman's fault if she is single and it isn't her fault if idiots message her. Simple :)

"Not you Tiggy. I am sure you have never sent a cock shot." - All the time actually, but due to it's uncanny resemblance to Michael Gove people just think I'm being all political.

Well, Michael Gove is a cock, so easy mistake.