To wonder where all the normal, single men are?

[Needsmorecake]

because, sure as hell, they are not within a 50 mile radius of me.

This comes off the back of being let down again. I was meant to have a date tomorrow, now i do not.

Lovely man, 40, deputy head of an ' outstanding school' Not only did he send me the most 'penisey' photo, where even in jogging bottoms his cock felt the need to make its presence known, but, after some internet reasearch, i found he had two facebook accounts, one of which he is only friends with very young, very naked, eastern women.

I cancelled the date, clearly he is nuts. However, this seems to be the case more often than not, and its so very very tiring.

Ive been single for 5.5 years, i dont want to remarry, but id just like someone, it seems so impossible.

I agree hogwash - I think the whole thread has been about how we definitely shouldn't put up with that shit. And wondering about why so many men dish it out

I suppose the thing that puts me off a shy, geeky guy, is that, to be totally honest, I am NOT shy. I am quite gregarious, I'm well read, I have political opinions and I'm not afriad to share them
I'm the first on the dancefloor type.
When I have dated the shy awkward types, I just feel like I am the one driving the conversation all the time, and cracking jokes to try and loosen them up a bit. It's hard work.
I don't know. I have a few male friends of old who I can go to the pub with occasionally, and just have that rapport where we can chat about anything and have that banter. (These men are all either married, or toxic bachelor types that I would never date but get on with well on a friend level)
I think I need some sort of mental spark like that to even fancy a guy.

Velvet a good number of men would not approach a woman for the very same reason you no longer approach men, because they feel they would just be rejected.

Unfortunately with men there is a good number of arrogant pricks amongst the most confident it is a very fine line between arrogance and confidence. Not saying you should date shy men I know that shy men are not particularly popular with women. But by doing the initiating a man would assume you like them and would adjust their behaviour accordingly.

I will say this though if a man is single and he is chatting to a woman often generally he fancies her although he may not act on it. I think you were just unlucky with your text guy to be honest. Do you have any male friends who you quite like but never thought liked you in that way?

Or try meetup.com where singles just mingle doing things that interest them in a very friendly environment. Less pressure involved in those situations.

My god sugar could you be any more offensive?? Yet again you are victim blaming!

Why do you assume we're all desperate wallflowers frantically clinging to these men and skewing our judgement with our neediness?? I don't want to get married, I don't want a father for my kids, I don't want a knight in shining armour to rescue me, I don't want someone to live with, I don't want heavy commitments and swearing undying love forever, I want a bit of company, a friend, regular sex, someone to go for a drink with and cuddle in front of a fire with and watch a film with, I want a snog on my birthday, I want a boyfriend. The 10 month guy I wasn't looking for happy ever after and I made that very very clear, I wasn't in love, I wasn't ever going to be in love, I don't care what he does with his money as long as it doesn't affect me so why would I run a mile just because he's not the best with money and gambles too much? I'm not joining my finances with him and as long as I'm not paying for everything and he's not sponging off me and still treats me nicely it makes no odds to me. It would be different if I was looking for a husband, financial security would be a factor but not with a boyfriend. Why should that have told me he was suddenly going to start treating me disrespecfully and being lewd and sending cock shots?? And by your reckoning it was my fault for not spotting that he may do that sooner?? Wow. By that reckoning why did you not spot that your ex was going to do that to you and you allowed him to do it as it was happening so it was your fault! I have been married to a man who beat me and before it started there was no warning whatsoever, he was the kindest, most gentle man I'd ever met, he was never aggressive, he actively avoided confrontation and arguments, he didn't destroy inanimate objects in temper, he was friends with all his ex's, he'd never been in a fight, he was popular, gentle, he was wonderful. It was a total shock to me and everyone else, most people still can't believe he did it but one thing is damn sure it was NOT my fault and nothing I did deserved that. Your attitude given your history is surprising to say the least and I actually think it may have left you with some serious unresolved issues if that is really how you think. I would start with the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft - seriously. Because that attitude with that history is a dangerous juxtaposition.

As has been said many many times here some of these men send this stuff on the first message and it is very upsetting, offensive, destroys your confidence and can actually be very scary and make you feel really vulnerable and violated. And you're sitting there acting like it's our fault!! My profiles have varied between very basic, no photo, ticked boxes and one sentence just to fill a criteria for the profile being accepted, to a full profile with photos (ones which I think make me look more serious, older, a mother, nothing showing my body, something which isn't sexy or even that attractive to try and avoid the lewd comments) and a long write up making very clear what I am about, what I'm looking for and that that behaviour and those photos will not be tolerated and will be reported or even passed to the police, and everything in between. I've tried to make myself look less 'sexy young thing' and more 'older sensible mother' so not up for that and it makes no difference whatsoever. Whatever my profile, whatever I say, whatever photos I use, it's all the same.

We have all on here said we've tried other things, we've tried sports, education, coffee shops, pubs, bars, clubs, just general life out and about and they're all the bloody same! Either no one there or the ones you do meet end up doing the same old things sooner or later.

Answer me this - I was seeing a guy for 4 months, last year/early this year - he was professional, educated, smart, good looking, funny, kind, the most amazing kisser, from a good family, we were getting on really well, though we both said we were not looking to get married and have babies, we just wanted a boy/girlfriend. We went to the cinema one evening, had a lovely night together, no sign of anything at all being unusual. The previous 4 months he'd seen some of my friends in passing and I'd talked about them a lot but for one reason or other mainly his weekend shift working hours and my schedule with my daughter and her father and my friends' schedules with their kids and ex husbands, he'd never actually properly met my friends. The next night he messages me online and we're chatting together and he asks what Im doing at the weekend and he'd like to take me to dinner, and then my phone rings. It's a mother at my daughter's school, I'd call her a friend but not my best friend or anything, she's a lovely person and we go for drinks together and share common interests and sit together at school events, but primarily she is a mother at my daughter's school who I will see at school and through our girls for the next 10 years. She is friends with my ex due to school, she is a big gossip and I wouldn't tell her anything I wouldn't want spread round the school, both of which I told this guy, but she's a nice woman. Anyway she starts asking how things were with him, when did I last see him, what did we do, where did we go, what time... all a bit odd, then she tells me that minutes before I met up with him to go to the cinema the previous night he messaged her online (he must have stalked her pretty well to find her as my Facebook friends list is hidden, he'd never met her, she was using a fake name on the site he found her on, and I'd never mentioned her full name anyway, why would I in passing conversation) and his FIRST message to her was "damn you're hot, yeeeeeeah, I'm thinking you, me, Random, threesome yeah". She tried to diffuse it by replying "haha you're so funny" and his response, which would have been while he was with me and I do remember him typing on his phone whilst I was driving us to the cinema, was "I'm serious, can't get the thought out my head, you on it?" which she didn't reply to and rang me the next day to tell me. I was with him, there was no sign at all, his messages to me weren't like that, what did I do to let him treat me like that and what did my friend do to warrant a message like that? What possessed him to think that was in any way acceptable, this is a mother at DDs school, friends with my ex husband, a big gossip, had she been really upset or offended can you imagine the trouble that could have caused me for the next 10 years?? Even when I messaged him as I was on the phone asking if he'd done it his response was as if I'd asked if he'd eaten the last of the cheese! "Yeah, I was feeling naughty last night." WTF? And if he was feeling so naughty then why was it the ONLY date we'd had since we started sleeping together where we didn't sleep together, he never once pushed me to and was very respectful in bed. I would have that night but it was late and we both had to be up early and he didn't push and we were both happy with a kiss goodnight, really didn't seem in any naughty mood to me! He had no idea what an unbelievably disrespectful and stupid thing it was to do, he genuinely though it was just cheeky fun. The question we've been asking on here is why men are so fucked up lately over sex and why they think this behaviour is acceptable! It's not just me, it's happening to friends too. One friend her ex boyfriend is almost 50 years old and dumped her on New Years Day because he wanted to try out gay sex and she wasn't up for it. He has said he wanted her to go and sleep with another man and come back to him where he would lick her out and taste the other man's cum in her. She'd been with him TWO YEARS. He is divorced with 2 kids, earns 6 figures a year in a very good job, he is well respected in his field. A guy I was messaging last year I met in a bar, we'd been chatting for a couple of hoyrs, he didnt even try to kiss me on the lips goodnight which i would have been up for, he was very respectful, we text back and forth for a couple of weeks, arranged a drink out all nice and polite and BAM - cock shot. I cancelled the date, told him I did not appreciate the message and I was disappointed and it was a stupid thing to do when I have a 7 year old who plays on my phone and photos are automatically saved to my gallery and the cloud and he was stunned that I was upset and didn't know it was wrong! These men are not normal! It is not us, not when it's happening to so many of us in different walks of life and different areas. And you blaming us as if our radars are off or were so desperate we're overlooking the obvious or allowing this behaviour is incredibly offensive and very very wrong.

I put myself out there, I smile at men I find attractive, I'm chatty and get in conversations with anyone anywhere, but sooner or later, there it is, a message flashes up with yet another ugly dick and some disgusting graphic message or fucked up behaviour.

ifnot you sound like me

Geeky / shy types aren't stupid - in fact most of them are very well read, interesting and funny. It's just they are not that confident with women. But once you've chatted to them for half an hour you get through to the spark - that's what I found anyway. My BF is now more confident to do stuff because he sees me dive in. Anyone who saw him in a skin-tight green lurex abba costume and a blond wig giving iit large onthe dancefloor at my friend's party last year would never believe he's the shy type.

OLD gives you a great chance to meet people that you would never normally meet, with very little investment of time / emotion. I think it's well worth considering people that you wouldn't normally consider to be "your type" or "like you".

When you meet your lovely geek, "ifnot", I expect an invite to the wedding

I couldn't date anyone quiet or shy. I am fiery, headstrong, passionate (much of which I blame on my Italian heritage!) and a massive chatterbox - I can talk nonstop for hours. That's not nerves, it's how I and my family are.

A quiet man would simply find me too much to handle, I know because I've dated, had relationships even with men like that, and they have found my conversational demands too wearing, I am too strident, too noisy, just too 'much'.

I also don't want to be 'in charge' of a man. I am in charge at work, and with my DCs. In a relationship, I would hope for something more egalitarian. I don't want a man who's laidback to the point of coma, or unable to express an opinion (the ones who want you always to arrange dates, decided what you do, when etc...).

Again, I'll say that I'm stumped (and appalled) at these stories Random. You have been spectacularly unlucky. That's the only thing I can think of because otherwise it's just too depressing t contemplate that there are so many awful men out there.

It seems to me that lots of men have such skewed ideas of relationship sthat there's no hope for them at all.

I didn't say quiet. I'm talking about men who aren't so fucking cocksure arrogant about themselves and find it hard to approach women.

Fasttouch I think the texting chap did fancy me a bit, just not enough to actually date me. His ideal woman is a WAG/TOWIE type (he's an ex semi- pro footballer, never quite made it), whereas I am more of a Nigella. C'est la vie.

I don't really have single male friends, other than one (who is someone I was previously dating). Years ago my male friends always used to end up fancying me, I never felt the same, and it all got awkward. Or else they got girlfriends and the gfs didn't like me, either way it all went wrong!

I did look at meetup in my area last year, most of the groups were almost exclusively women. Or a bit new-age, tree huggy stuff which isn't my cup of tea. I'll have another look, I guess there might be new groups in the last 6 months (can only hope!)

Velvet - you said "I tend to subscribe to the theory that if men are actually interested in a woman (in any way), they will approach them. I'm happy to be contradicted by any men who may be reading the thread, but that has been my experience."

I'm a man. Can I contradict you please? Some of us may not be total wallflowers but we aren't necessarily overly confident either or have been knocked back so many times we won't put ourselves out there unless we are getting very positive signals.

I also find people's OD experiences wildly differing. My female best friend found Match hopeless and went on more dates with guys via Plentyoffish. No spark with any of them, but there you go. She also tells me she never had one unpleasant or overtly sexual message or cock shots. She started to wonder what was wrong with her!

I waited and waited to get a cock shot, purely so I could reply "that looks like a penis, only smaller!"
Maybe GSM guys are too sophiss for cock-shots. I may never know.

You are on BitOutofPractice. Although if I ever get married again I will eat my hat!

I've been reading this thread the last couple of days and thought i'd add my thoughts for what it's worth.

Velvet - I guess we are talking mainly about guys in their 30's early 40's here and most of the guys i know who are single would not make the first move. I know quite a few of my university friends who are still single, never been married, and i would class them as good guys. Would never pull anything like what random has described above. Trouble is they are not OD and i think in general have given up, they feel it's just not meant to happen to them. I would not class them as Geeks Nurds ect, just didn't cut the mustard on the charm / confidence front in their early twenties and missed the boat. Actually one has recently found a girlfriend at 38 (i think it may be his second girlfriend ever) and they are very happy. He has also really changed in himself, now he is a lot more chatty and confident. He was always the guy my girlfriends used to say was so nice and why didn't he have a girlfriend but when i asked would you go out with him said God No!

On the other hand talking about the cocky charming types i knew plenty of arseholes who used to talk about their girlfriends like shit, treat women really badly but had the gift of the gab, were quite good looking, charming ect. and you could be sure when we went out on the town they would be the ones leaving with the girl. I guess these guys are now divorsed and OD must be a god send for them. One guy where i work, who TBH i don't know that well, was bragging on our last works do about all the women he had lined up and telling us all his recent conquests. He would certainly make the first move, even if you were not interested!

So how do you avoid these types and find the decent ones who are not even looking anymore? If i could solve that one i'd be a millionaire i guess.

I don't mind quietly confident men, or outgoing geeks, but real quiet, shy, quiet men would not interest me. I am very loud and extrovert and confident (ADHD!) and I need someone who can handle that and balance it and run with it, not someone I would overpower or who would be embarrassed by it or who I would be working overtime with to keep the conversation and fun going.
I think we're screwed. Of the very small number of normal, decent, single men out there, they're so sick of being rejected and meeting the equivalent female psychos that they too have given up and gone into hiding resigning themselves to terminal singledom too and we shall all pass each other by in the street in our own little impenetrable fortresses we've put up around ourselves never realising we just passed our soul mate. Sigh.

Random - yes there are the equivilent awful women out there - or so I'm told.

How the hell do you spell equivilent? Is that right?

Trust me, as a man who did online dating, there are absolutely the equivalent awful women out there.

Random, I understand your temptation to give a false name. I only have my first name online, and one man wanted to know my full (unusual and highly identifiable) name in his very first message to me. I sent a light-hearted all-in-good-time response and he got very pissy: "Well, CLEARLY I read you all wrong, I thought you were nice ... " and so on. Twat.

I'd quite like a shorter chap. I'm a shortass myself; I once dated someone 6'2". There were ... logistical difficulties, shall we say.

I don't do cocky, charming men - and to be fair, they don't tend to bother with me because I'm not a mouse, and come across as quite savvy and confident - and therefore not easily bullshitted!

The last person I dated (for any length of time) wasn't a loud, overly confident type by any means. In many ways he was quite reserved, but he was gregarious, sociable, with a lot of friends, and a very active life. That's the sort of person I will get on with.

A friend of mine is in a relationship with a man in his 40s, who had been single for many years prior to meeting her. He's a decent chap, not at all the sort to send or request naked photos. BUT he has no friends, no real social life, and conversation with him is like pulling teeth, even my friend admits they spend most of their evenings in different rooms, or in the same room in silence. Fair enough, she's a quiet person herself, and it suits her. But there's no way I could have a relationship with someone like that, it just wouldn't work.

I had that too! someone asking my full name immediately and wanting to add me on Facebook and first date coming to my house... no chance!!! And they get all insulted when you say not so fast!

I was looking at Facebook this morning and a tall girl page I follow put up a cartoon of a short girl with a tall man and then a tall girl yelling "Stop wasting his inches!!!" Yeah that would be me, kind of pisses me off when I see one of the very few men tall enough for me with a very short girl and all I have left are 5'8" men who would be perfect for them! Lol! I'm 6' dammit! Leave the 6'4"+ ones alone!!

Ive just read through this thread and it rings great big huge alarm bells with me.
I had honestly just thought perhaps it was me. I have had so much awful behaviour from men whilst OD in the last couple of months I simply could not put myself through it again. (Cock shots, aggressive behaviour etc) but most worryingly of all, I am relentlessly being made to feel like its my own fault.

I did at one point think maybe it was just me and I should move with the times, then I thought, NO. I refuse to accept such absolute disrespect.

I have never been made to feel like this before, and at the age of 42 that scares me.. I A strong, confident woman. I worry for my 17 year old cousin that she is going to grow up with this kind of attitude from men where you are bullied / shamed / harrangued into going along with what THEY want or they make you feel like a freak / frigid etc.

request to media people out there - please run a high profile story highlighting the extent of this problem!

Fair point Random ... Send me the shorties! It is annoying standing on tiptoe to kiss. Or ending up in an armpit when trying to hug.

I agree, it is shocking and I worry about my daughter if it carries on though I'll be watching like a hawk with her. I'd welcome a media storm about this.

The aggression is unreal. I once was on PoF, had left my profile up on my laptop, went for a shower and when I came back I had about a dozen messages from one guy - obviously he'd seen my online status. It started with "Hi" then "I said hi" then "I'm talking to you, answer me" then "why aren't you fucking answering me??" and ended with me being called a bitch and a whore and if I remember rightly there was a c word in one of them, all in the space of about 15 minutes. I shut my profile down there and then.

It works the other way too. My dp was single for 3 years before he met me (not through a dating site but on the internet through shared interest).

He tried all sorts: online dating, speed dating, etc, but the women he met were either only interested in a fling (and he wasn't at all) or wanted to know the ins and outs of his bank balance/prospects. He had a job and rented his own place but he never met anyone he clicked with or anyone who didn't have a massive list of tick boxes to cover.

He's kind, thoughtful and interesting. He treats me with total respect and care (which was a shock to the system after my exh). There are nice blokes out there but I doubt many are on PoF or similar.

If online dating isn't working, try something else.

And back to the same question asked 100 times on this thread - where?? We all know OD isn't working but we've all said we've tried elsewhere and still encounter the same problems.

This reminds me of the dinner scene in Bridget Jones "Come on Bridge you know you really should get a move on, times a ticking, why ARE there so many single women in their 30s?" as if she not trying, hasn't realised this and it's all these women's faults "because under our skin our bodies are entirely covered in scales". Oh god, I'm Bridget Jones! No! I'm her friend who swears a lot! Fuck 'em!