To wonder where all the normal, single men are?

[Needsmorecake]

because, sure as hell, they are not within a 50 mile radius of me.

This comes off the back of being let down again. I was meant to have a date tomorrow, now i do not.

Lovely man, 40, deputy head of an ' outstanding school' Not only did he send me the most 'penisey' photo, where even in jogging bottoms his cock felt the need to make its presence known, but, after some internet reasearch, i found he had two facebook accounts, one of which he is only friends with very young, very naked, eastern women.

I cancelled the date, clearly he is nuts. However, this seems to be the case more often than not, and its so very very tiring.

Ive been single for 5.5 years, i dont want to remarry, but id just like someone, it seems so impossible.

No I don't think I am actually. But just because I can see an encounter as just a shag does not mean the guy is entitled to then send clock shots and treat me like a blow up doll. I don't mean that it's wrong to have a fuck buddy or a bootie call, but does that mean that the buddy can message you with "Hey Milf, I want to f you up the a and you can suck my c and here's a photo of my dick you want it don't you yeah" 20 years ago even a fuck buddy would message me with "Hi , how are you doing? Do you fancy a drink Saturday? Hope you're well, xx" I don't think that's asking too much. Even a FB 20 years ago wouldn't try to grope me, I mean properly GROPE me in front of my parents, or email a mother at my daughter's school asking for a threesome, or send me cock shots. It's more about respect and common decwncy than anything. I agree with whoever said men are screwed up over sex, they really are.

As for dinner with granny I stand by it. I knocked at the door expecting my date and a 90 year old granny answers. She invited me in from the rain when I apologised and asked if I had the wrong house as I was looking for him, she said he lived there but had gone out with the boys, I explained he had arranged to go out with me and said I'd call him to see if he was coming back and was just late or if he was out out, when we realised he was out out she was serving up her dinner and asked if I wanted a plate and I said yes. It was all very innocent and nice and I'm struggling to understand what is so freaky about it. I can't see how having a granny who would do that would explain his behaviour? She bollocked him when she saw him, she certainly wasn't enabling him or making him entitled. I don't understand?

The no-ties internet relationship thing will always benefit men generally unless you check out those weird dogging sites where literally anything goes and the women on it are not exactly shrinking violets.

There's a lot to be said for courting the old fashioned way and waiting for the right one to turn up unannounced and completely by surprise.

Anyone no matter what sex they are should be free to do exactly what they want and experiment but they have to understand that even in these circumstances people quite often get hurt.

Howgwash, it is all very well saying so don't be treated as a blow up doll and don't put up with it, but women don't invite this behaviour! You can refuse to put up with it in that you cut contact with a man who starts behaving like that but it doesn't stop the next seemingly normal bloke from suddenly starting to send dirty messages.

Caruthers, waiting around passively for the right man to show up does certainly reduce the chance of encountering weirdos however it also reduces the chance of meeting any eligible men full stop. At this point I would like to meet a man who wants a family and I am aware of my biological clock - would rather be proactive and wade my way through some losers in the hope of finding the right one.

Random if you see the encounter as a shag then the person you are shagging has equally got the right to view it the encounter the way he wants to. I am not saying one night stands are wrong believe me I have been there but I did see them for what they were.

Velvet said it was patronising of me to say people looking for love should love themselves. I think it is crucial to love yourself so that you don't make poor decisions when someone shows you a bit of attention. When I stopped looking for someone I met some very nice single men. It became very clear to me that I had been subconsciously giving off the wrong signals. When I suggested that women have a laugh and enjoy the world around them I meant we should start to really enjoy life other than focussing so hard on meeting someone.

I am single but have had some dates with guys I met locally. Some went well and some didn't. I find it tricky to focus on a relationship because I have two teenagers who are giving me the run around. Not one of the guys I met in RL sent me cock shots.

Lots of people do meet online and have great experiences. All I was trying to say was perhaps some women's approach to OD wasn't the best.

Hogwash first of all I'm not a teenager, I'm pushing 40, I know what a relationship is (having been married for 12 years) and I know what a FB and a ONS is. I make it very clear that I am looking at someone as a casual fling or that I want a relationship and if their intent doesn't match mine then I call it quits. When I have looked at something as a fling it does not mean it then gives the men carte blanche to start sending lewd messages and cock shots. That's all I'm saying. What is wrong with them saying "Hi , how are you, fancy a drink Saturday, x", why do they think it is OK to send some filthy degrading graphic description of what they want to do and call me sexy arse or sexy tits or milf. The ones I have actually got as far as doing anything with (and I'm not thrilled with the insinuations here that I'm out shagging anything every Saturday night, I've had 3 partners in 3 years, one was 10 months and another 4 months before I worked out they were freaks) did not show their disrespect till later on, others do it on the first contact or within the first few messages before even getting as far as thinking about meeting up, which is largely what this thread has been about if you read it properly and stop sitting in your ivory tower judging people for things you have said you have no experience or knowledge of.

Secondly it is extremely insulting to say "if you don't want to be treated like a blow up doll then don't be treated as a blow up doll" and is just perpetuating the victim blaming culture which enables all sorts of perpetrators to get away with this behaviour and I hope to god you do not teach your sons that kind of attitude as that is precisely the problem. How often do we hear people saying rape victims shouldn't have dressed like that, been out alone, talked to strangers etc - we teach how to avoid getting raped but not to not rape. How often do we hear people saying victims of domestic abuse probably pushed him to it or should just leave and deserves it if they stay? You're telling girls not to accept being treated badly but clearly these men have not been told to not treat them like that! How many times are girls told when boys pick on them "oh he probably fancies you!", teaching them that if a man treats them badly it means they love them?? How many times do people write off boy's bad behaviour towards girls as oh he's just being a boy or oh it's probably a little crush, instead of telling them that there is no excuse for that behaviour and it is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. And now it's well just don't be treated like that? Unbelievable.

Thirdly it's not just FBs who do this. I was seeing a guy for 10 months who started off as a nice, normal guy and unleashed the sleeze bag within well into the relationship. Suddenly the politeness and respect started fading and soon it was groping, parading me like a trophy bimbo, started with the lewd comments and that gansta rapper checking out a ho looks, talking about me to his friends and others in a really dirty and disrespectful way as if I were a hooker and sending cock shots. This is a guy who for the previous 8 months had heard me continually say I did not like that behaviour and who numerous times had heard me talk about cock shots and how disgusting they were and that I never ever want to see that. Whenever he did it I pulled him up on it and made it very very clear I did not appreciate it but as it had been out of character given the previous 8 months I wrote it off as a one off, a joke or him being drunk or doing a big man act in front of his mates, none of which are acceptable and I made that clear, but he put on a bloody good act for EIGHT MONTHS. It was also then, or over the next few weeks, that I found out about his porn obsession and the photos on his laptop and a Facebook conversation with his friend about them visiting a brothel together recently. I don't think I'm particularly stupid, I'm pretty switched on and have a pretty solid guard up with men, I'm constantly looking for red flags and warning signs and although there were some in other ways (money, gambling...) there were none with sex. He was actually a very considerate and generous lover and very, very good in bed.

Fourthly when did I say it was my first date when I ended up having dinner with granny?? It was actually our third. I had met him for a day time date at a farm with his daughter, and evening meal and drink in a pub and this was the third time I was meeting him to go out for a meal, so why was it so wrong??

You are incredibly judgemental on this thread towards women and as you brought up why I think mothers have failed these boys I will explain because quite a lot of your attitude has me worried about your boys picking up on it. Fathers may be arrogant arseholes and boys may pick up on it, but a bigger influence will be if a mother puts up with it, teaching the boys that that behaviour is aceptable. If they see her not accepting it and pulling him up on it they will learn it is not a way to behave. It is also how they treat their mothers, if they expect her to do everything for them and she allows it, that's how he'll treat women later. If they treat her like a second class citizen and she allows it, that's how they treat other women. If they hear her saying women are asking for certain treatment by their behaviour then they learn it is the victim to blame. If they are little and say "eurgh I'm not playing/doing/wearing/watching xxx that's for giiiiiirls" or "eurgh she can't play football with us she's s giiiiirl" and it goes unchallenged they are already picking up on gender stereotyping and that being a girl is somehow a bad thing or beneath them. Yes they can learn behaviour from their father, but they learn if it's acceptable from their mother and the women around them. Girls too learn from their mothers what is acceptable. I have a friend with an abusive partner and her 8 year old daughter watches her mother every day taking his behaviour. She is being taught daily that it's OK for men to treat her like that, not because of his behaviour but because she sees her mother taking it and staying and showin gher it's OK and normal.

It would be lovely, wouldnt it, if i would just sit by and wait for my knight in shining armour a man to turn up. Sadly this isnt disney, and im not so bloody passive.
IF i had done nothing about it myself ( though there have been lots of times where ive taken a break and just left it) then i would have been chatted up by 3 men in 5 years. None of which went any further than that first chat, no numbers were even swapped. Which means i wouldnt have had a hug, a kiss, anything intimate at all, no flirting, nothing, for 5.5 years. As a woman in her early 30s, and supposedly at her peek, sexually, thats a pretty rough ride.

Like it or not, the world has moved on, the goal posts have changed and if you opt out you are doing that, opting out and you will get left behind.

I dont think anyone on this thread has complained about one night stands or hoping they will turn into relationships and then they dont, have they? People are chatting about behaviours before it even gets to this point.

Im somewhat puzzled at the ' well dont let yourself be treated like that then' I dont, i cancelled the date with the penisy deputy head when i uncovered all his filth. Doesnt mean i wasnt subjected to it first. Me saying NO and blocking people, doesnt mean i havent had the cock shot, stream of filth or insult first.

Im also wondering why loving yourself and wanting a relationship cant be felt at the same time. Its pretty much a basic human need, its evolution, women are programmed to want this stuff, It doesnt mean im needy because id like someone to go out with and have dinner with, it doesnt mean im desperate because id like to watch a film with someone rather than be on my own. It doesnt mean i dont love myself if id quite like someone to ask how my day was. So, stop being so silly about that.

Whitesugar, why are you saying some womens approch to online dating isnt the best? have any of us said how we use it? has anyone said they dont have a full life otherwise? work, friends, family, holidays, culture, etc etc... dont believe they have.

ive logged onto my emails this morning, and ive 3 messages, two commenting on my ' tits' even though there are no tits in my profile pics. One says ' looks like you have big tits then, excellent' one says ' big tits means big nipples'. The third message just says ' id like to bang you' I have of course, blocked them all, but that doesnt mean i havent read that shit and now feel pissed off about it. If it happens once or twice, its easy to shrug off, when its happening constantly, its actually really horrible. If you could imagine the same sort of emails popping up in your inbox everytime you logged in, im sure you would feel the same. Im a nice person, im a mother, i have a good job, a nice house, im educated. Ive done things for charity, ive been involved in the community, i eat NAICE ham. I do not deserve to put up with this shit. Noone deserves to put up with this shit.

i was also chatting to someone, seemingly normal and its now come up to say his account has been deleted. However, at the top of my screen, there is his pitcure, and he has a new account with an almost, but not identical user name.
So, this means either he was reported to the site for being rude and his account was deleted. He deleted his account and then immediately set up a new one with the same photos? Or, its not a real profile and is a fake.

No way of knowing, but yet again a bit more of my time wasted.

Loving yourself and wanting a relationship are not mutually exclusive. If women are finding OD as awful as you say then don't do it. Don't subject yourself to that type of abuse from dick heads. If your approach to finding a partner is not working, try a different approach.

But what other approach is there?

This was the whole point of this thread, pretty much 98% of us have said how bad it is and have all had similar experiences, ergo, its unlikley to be something one of us is doing, or that the problem lies with us.

But, what other avenues do you know?

This is what ive just said about, in 5.5 years ive been chatted to by 3 men, when im out and about. 3! thats it. two were actually together as well, so im not sure they even count as 2.

Where does a woman who is in the 30-50 age range meet someone?

By my stats,it doesnt happen in day to day life, it doesnt happen when i go out. Just this month i had a child free week. I went out in the evening, to public places 3 of those 7 nights. I went out for 2 lunches as well. I also went to work and did usual things like walk the dog, going shopping etc. I had 7 social things that week ( two were not in public places) thats good going by anyones standards. Did ANY man talk to me? did he fuck.

It just doesnt happen. How many times do you get chatted up when you are going about your day?
Do you think its any different for single women, because it isnt.

Needs I have to race out shortly. I would advise you to stop focussing on finding someone. You are sending out sub conscious signals that you are desperate and you are not listening to your heart which is telling you to nurture yourself. You are quite right to look for someone, it's lovely to be in a loving relationship. Distance yourself from the search for a while and truly spoil yourself. I will be brutally honest - you are making crap choices. You and Random are hooking up with total dick heads. There are signs that you are missing because your focus is so skewed. That bloke who turned into a dick after 10 months was always a dick. Signs like not good with money and gambling were there and you should have steered clear.

There is something fundamentally wrong with your claim that you were having sex doggy style and he had the nerve to ask for guidance. I don't think you can see what was going on there. You were looking for meaning where it did not exist.

I also think you should stop rejecting people who don't fit your ideal picture I.e.short, not wearing the clothes you want etc. Stop making sweeping statements about men and mothers. Myself and any sensible person I know would go mad with our sons if they were disrespectful to any female or male for that matter.

I managed to marry someone who tried to strangle me, run me over in a car so please don't think I don't know about denial. Be kinder to yourself. Stop focussing on meeting the perfect man. He doesn't exist.

Hi Needs Sorry I disappeared off last night, I was watching a film.

What did I do? I don't know! I do know that I had not one cock shot and perhaps only 2 or 3 really overtly sexual messages.

I was on POF from Oct-Dec 2012 and again from March - April 2013.

In that time I had probably 25 first dates. So I worked it pretty hard. I'd say 8 of them went to second date (more at the beginning when I was a bit wet behnd the ears and not so good at saying "no thanks"). 5 of them went no further than 2 dates (some disappeared, some I dinged).

Of that 5 I had very brief (but very good fun) flings / relationships with 2 of them. 2 months each I'd say. I ended them both. Not because they were horrible people, but because I knew there was no future / not enough spark. Then I met my lovely BF who I've been with for a year next week.

I don't know what I did differently. I'm older than you (46) to start with so maybe I atraced older men who might be more mature? I'm definitely not a pretty as you so maybe I attracted less confident / shyer men? I cut off anybody VERY sharpish if I thought there was anything dodgy about them. I also did quite a lot of initiating messaging so I perhaps wasn't so much at the mercy of all the dickwads contacting me.

My profile was pretty no nonsense. I run my own business, I'm pretty confident in what I am and do, I made it clear that I was happy without a man - not desperate. (I'm not saying that you're doing this btw, just trying to think what I did to deter the idiots). I also had a couple of profile pictures which invited comment iykwim - people would message me to ask what I was doing in the picture. Not just a picture of my face smiling. Maybe that made a difference because it made me stand out a bit and gave the less cocky confident men a hook to get talking to me.

There are definitely nice, normal, respectful men online. I know lots of people who have met their DH / DP online so it is possible. And my BF is possibly the kindest person I ever met.

I wish you good luck - OLD can be such a good laugh if you go into it with the right mindset

I'll also ask you about being out and about - you say you have been chatted to by 3 people in RL in 5 years. How many men have you chatted to? Not all men are confident and forward. In fact, a lot of the nicest men are the least confident!

I will chat to anyone, anywhere. Supermarket queue, bar, bank, anywhere. Try it!

Needs my experience of RL dating is very similar to Bit' s. I chat to everyone out and about, men women and children. If you don't mind sharing could you tell how your last 3 nights went. What happened, who you were with etc. Us oldies might spot something that we used to do that doesn't work.

Why am.i making crap choices, if im cancelling dates and blocking people?

Im not.

There is nothing to suggest this latest man was a prick, other than what i found from googling. Nothing at all.

I dont know when ive said ive rejected people based on clothes either.

I talk to people all the time. Anyone from here whos metme in rl ( and there have been a few) will vouch for that.

"When I have looked at something as a fling it does not mean it then gives the men carte blanche to start sending lewd messages and cock shots"
Well, quite.
I find it very disturbing that there have been implications on this thread that just because a woman is OK with having a casual sexual relationship she she should accept being treated as a depository for some wank jockey's filthy misogynistic bile.
I also hate the implication that "boys will be boys", and that the only way to prevent being bombarded with a barrage of aggressive, sexually warped abuse is to not even try and date anyone online, because it's, apparently a given that men will behave like this.
Nobody, no matter how sexually liberated, agrees to be treated like they are less than human.

Having said all that, I do agree with BitOutofPractice, that the seemingly confident men online can often be the wrong'uns. I am steadfastly setting my gap at the geeky ones nowadays!
(And praying they don't turn out to be scary losers too..)

I tend to subscribe to the theory that if men are actually interested in a woman (in any way), they will approach them. I'm happy to be contradicted by any men who may be reading the thread, but that has been my experience. So striking up a conversation with random men really doesn't seem likely to reap much reward - indeed it is more likely to result in you getting a flea in your ear (or worse) if the man you're chatting to (and merrily assuming is single) has a wife or girlfriend in the vicinty...

About 3 years ago, I became quite pally with a guy I met through friends. He used to phone me a few times a week for a chat, we used to watch the Apprentice together (in our own homes, but maintaining text commentary throughout). He had a great sense of humour, and used to have me in stitches. Never any dodgy texts, anything inappropriate. But he never suggested we get together for a drink or anything either. Everyone said I should ask him, because notwithstanding the fact he hadn't asked, he had to be interested in me to have spent so much time texting me/chatting to me.

So I asked. He said no.

He said no because he wasn't interested. If he had been, clearly he would have asked me first!

It's the same with OD'ing. I've sent the first message to many men. I have rarely got a reply, or if I have, the exchange has petered out rapidly. It's simply not worth the effort.

whitesugar you suggested upthread I'd said it was patronising to say you should love yourself. That's not what I said at all. What I actually said was it's patronising to suggest that just because I (or any of the other singletons on the thread) want a relationship, that means I don't love myself. Because trust me I do (and I'm sure it's the same for the other posters). I have enormous self-esteem (I would never have survived the OD experiences I have otherwise), and think I am pretty bloody fantastic. I expect men to look at me, to find me attractive, to like my personality and my company.

Oh don't get me wrong, I have nothing against casual sex. Quite the opposite. I had some of that too while I was single.And IME it didn't give the men concerned the green light to treat me badly. I found, in fact, that if you both went into it with the same expectations, it was actually rather friendly.

I also found the men I met online far more emotionally vulnerable and shyer than me. Maybe some of these vile men that the OP has met are over compensating for that (not an excuse of course)

Of course, I don't have to tell anyone who has read AIBU that being behind a screen makes people braver and more outrageous than they woud ever be in RL.

Ifnot my currentt BF is so far removed from "my type" it's untrue. Perhaps I wouldn't have noticed him in RL but his opening message was so funny, he had me hooked. He's a bit quite, shy, geeky and a self-confessed rubbish chatter upper. If I hadn't "favourited" his profile, he says he would never have dared message me as I was "scary". Maybe your profile is so great needs that really shy men are too scared to message you? I dunno. Maybe I'm clutching at straws

I'm not blaming you needs - you seem like a nice woman with reasonable expectations, that should have no trouble finding a decent man. I'm stumped

Im kind of annoyed that you think there is something wrong with me for dumping someone over bad sex. It wasnt even a relationship, it was a few dates in. Not only was it embarassing but it showed we were not in any way sexually compatiable, so, what was the point in seeing him again? Im not going to deal with crap sex just so i have a man.
I can tell you, when you are legs akimbo,on all fours, it is not sexy for the guy to shout at me telling me i will have to help him as he doesnt know what hes doing.

That doesnt leave me feeling good. I dont want to be with a man who hasnt a clue and then gets cross at me.

So, shut up.

I don't think anyone has said that have they needs?

I wouldn't stay with someone if the sex was crap either. In fact I really liked current BF by the time we had sex and I was sooooooo relieved it was fucking marvellous OK that I did a little fist pump