sick of feel poor when we are not, give me a slap

[Blackmouse]

thought id come on here for a good pasting as im annoying myself

we live in a wealthy area, and everyone surrounding us is basically way better off financally

we have a nice three bedroom house witth a lovely garden
dh works ft im a sahm with a baby and older child
which i feel v lucky to be able to do
we have enough to be able to afford holidays and days out and meals out etc
dont really need to worry about what we spend in supermarket

most people i know round here have much bigger houses
and more money to spend
most of them are older i guess
so think thats the main difference is,and im guessing here, they probably bought houses before we did, we bought our first house 2001, so before prices went crazy, but for a lot more than it would have cost if we had bought even three years earlier
age 21 and 22
so if most of them are older say a good five to ten years older
they probably bought their first homes for a real steal

yet i'm always feeling poor
its totally pathetic i know
im even annoying myself

i guess this is one of the downsides of living in an area like this

perhaps i should actually think of moving

I sometimes feel like that - we are some of the poorest of our friends. But they're all 5-10 years older than us (except for the only ones as "poor" as us).

So I read the papers and various MN threads to get a grip and realise that if I moved ten miles down the road I'd be the richest, not the poorest.

I'd still like to buy clothes in shops (not charity shops) without saving up for months.

Comparing with others is never healthy. If you moved to a cheaper area, you run the risk that there might be more crime or that other houses in a poorer state of repair make you feel poor, anyhow.

jealousy is a playground emotion. Not actually sure what your problem is?

someone will always be richer than you. So what?

you are healthy. You have clean water, a toilet and fresh air. Your children get free education and no-one will shoot them on their way to school.

already puts you ahead of billions of others!

Its all relative. I'm sure millionaires look to billionaires and wish they could afford a super yacht.

Academic research on personal happiness shows that above a fairly low level of wealth personal happiness does not increase but people feel most unhappy if other people around them are wealthier.

Blackmouse - you identified the problem. The neighbours are older and bought their houses a lot cheaper than you. Younger middle class people are struggling to maintain the standard of living of their parents' generation.

I have quite a few friends who live in much smaller houses in less nice areas than their retired parents who had similar professional level jobs. They have similar jobs to their parents but their income just doesn't buy them the same lifestyle as their parents enjoyed and indeed they enjoyed as children.

One man I know is a consultant surgeon. Lives in a cramped 4 bed new build and commutes 80 miles to work in a regional hospital no one really wants to work in. His Dad was also was a consultant surgeon (now retired) and has a large country house.

Its the 'squeezed middle phenomenon'.

I work for a company where you can get your airplane custom-outfitted. I'm not talking about a tiny Cessna that anybody (ha) can afford, but if you buy yourself a nice 747 for 200 million and want to drop another hundred million or so to get it completed as a private jet, with shark-skin sofas and showers.
I bet most of your neighbours would also feel quite poor in comparison? So stop comparing, there's always someone better off than you. Are you actually missing something, hungry, can't pay the bills? No? Count your blessings instead.

You need to stop comparing yourself to others. As you say, many of them are older and therefore are likely to have a much smaller mortgage or none at all. They might have received an inheritence. It is also nice that you acknowledge that you are reasonably comfortable.

One problem is that the standard of living that we have become accustomed to see as 'normal, not particularly extravagent' is only really affordable to a relatively small percentage of people.

If you think about things like:

Buying regular coffees/teas
Buying lunch at work
Eating out
Ordering take aways
Sending kids to ballet/drama/dance class
Shopping in the more expensive high street clothes shops
Getting nails/eyebrows/waxing done
Holidays
Replacing cars
Decorating and home improvements

People on average incomes, with average bills, can't really afford to do all those things regularly, even though things like having a coffee out seems so 'normal' and not particularly expensive, so we feel hard done by if we can't afford to have or do what 'everyone else' has or does.

Those that seem to do all those things all the time will either be:

Small percentage of very rich people (there are probably are disproportionate amount of these on Mumsnet).
People who are getting into debt and will run out of money sooner or later.
People who are subsidised by others, such as young people who live at home and pay little or nothing to their parents and spend all their wages on luxuries - again they won't be able to do this for ever.

However, some people work very hard at budgeting and getting deals, so seem to get a lot for their money - they may eat out a lot, but only on 2 for 1 deals.

You also don't always notice what people don't buy. Some people may spend very little on food, or cars.

I would try to ignore how others 'always seem to have more than you', because, while some do, its not always what it seems, they are not always 'happier' than you, and in most cases, it won't last for ever.

For example, I know someone who lives in a massive, beautiful house, they have two nice cars and always seem to have the finer things in life.

However, I also know that they are massively in debt with an interest only mortgage on a house that they 'cannot' sell, cause they need far too much money for it to pay off the massive mortgage.

They are both very close to retirement age and the husband has no pension, so will probably have to work past retirement age. The wife will get a reasonable pension, but it is tiny compared to their huge debts, but is in poor health so might not be able to work much longer (is currently on long term sick leave and may have to be medically retired). So while on the surface, they appear to be 'rich', I wouldn't swap places with them.

I live in a very affluent middle class area.

Lots of the people ( and our friends)enjoy an 'on the surface' wonderful lifestyle.

The problems they have are just like anyone else, and they are not all that happy!

I don't compare, behind closed doors things are never as they seem.

We are the paupers in our family, both my brother and sister are loaded and live in flash homes and drive new BMW X5s. I used to let it bother me but I don't now. we are comfortable and can sleep at night not worrying about money and have enough for living. We have even managed to save up and booked a holiday for August (although the balance of 550 is due at end on month). I don't need anthing more....

How about try being grateful? There are real problems in this world.

I think most of us get income envy occasionally...

I certainly do but its very fleeting.

When i think of people far far worse off it give some perspective and i realise im happy with my lot.

Agree Coffee, the best things in life are free.

I'm struggling with something similar at the moment. We're in our 30s and all our friends are buying houses and cars and it's just not financially feasible for us... I'm finding the trick is to avoid comparing ourselves with others and to focus on what we do have ie. employment, a roof over our heads in a good area (albeit rented), a baba on the way...

We compare apples with oranges when we compare ourselves with others.

I think we're all guilty of feeling envious from time to time and comparing ourselves with others is easy to do. Though as Vaseline says above, we're comparing apples with oranges and we don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

I think our expectations have changed from that of our parents. When I grew up in the 80's, we holidayed in North Wales, we only had one clapped out car and we lived in a modest 3 bed semi with one bathroom, no downstairs loo and (horror of horrors) no en suite. So did most of my peers. It's just now we "expect" the fancy 4 bed house, the foreign holidays, the new cars, the baby ballet and rugby tots for our DCs. My parent's generation saved for new purchases, everything now appears to be bought on credit.

I think you just need to stop and take stock OP. Cheesy and clichéd as it is, you really do have to count your blessings. Yes, it would be great to have more cash to go out to eat every week or do a far flung holiday but overall I am happy with my lot, skint or otherwise.

you are looking at people who you believe have more money than you and idolising their lives. they face all the problems most people face - albeit with more money which helps with some things and not at all with others.

I don't really understand using material wealth as a measure of happiness and achievement. So what that somebody has a bigger house? Or three massive SUVs? Does it make them happier? More fulfilled? More interesting as people? So, Blackmouse, what is it that you really want?

Your circumstances are exceptional by most standards. To own your house, to be able not to watch the price of your weekly shop, and to have one SAHP in a family, especially at your young age that you allude to is an exception. You have an excellent basis to make yourself secure when it comes to basic necessities. Perhaps it's time to think about the soul rather than the body.

I agree that most people go through phases of this and the key thing is that you have recognised that its not a fair reflection of your quality of life.

DH does go through stages of saying we are less well off than we really are and I have had to spell out the situation very clearly to him. In his case it's because he genuinely grew up poor (not in Europe - no running water etc.) and he can't always see how far we've moved away from that.

Comparisons are odious.
We are very very comfortable. No so long ago we used to look at the parents of one of DS's friends and goggle at their wealth. They went bankrupt last year - it was all borrowed on the back of a company.
Worry about what you have and whether it is enough for you - there is no point worrying about what other people have and it's a rather nasty and rather bitter emotion. My MIL has done it for her entire life and she is an empty shell.

Blackmouse I invite you to come to Africa, and only then will you see poverty. I am not even talking about the African countries where children starve, I am talking about a leafy suburb in Johannesburg.

When we put our dustbins out for collection, there are mothers with babies on their backs taking scraps of food out. They also take out plastic bottles or cardboard as they sell this to the recyclers to get say, 1 pound from that. If you don't manage to finish your McDonalds take away, don't worry as there is always a poor child with no shoes and wearing half a shirt who will kindly take the few chips off your hands.

You are hardly poor, and yes we cannot help everyone all the time, but your comments have hit a nerve with me. Please rather than whinge and moan, be a little grateful for what you have.

I am pretty comfortable these days but I used to feel the same when I first lived in a cheap flat in an expensive area. I grew up in a poor area and my poor lifestyle was just normal, as everyone was in the same boat. The lives of people who could afford expensive things were so distant from our lives that it didn't make sense to envy them, it seemed part of an unattainable lifestyle. Then I started a new job and moved to an area where people did actually have that lifestyle, and started feeling hard done by that I never had the same opportunities.

These days I'm much more at peace. I tend to socialise more with my old friends and they keep me grounded, if anything I'm much better off than them. I know less about the more privileged people I work with as I don't socialise much with them any more and don't feel much like I have things in common with them.

I'm with murphys on this one. I think this is a stealth boast/attention seeking thread.

There really are way bigger problems than what you are outlining. I think you need to get a grip and be grateful you have a naice life. Not everyone is so lucky.

I'd rather be poor and happy than rich with your attitude.

Sorry.

OP you haven't said what you want - why do you feel poor and what would you buy if you could?

You could work part-time, at least in a few years when you have DC at school, and then you would have more money (if it matters to you).

We are not poor by any means at all, but we live in a smallish house with a big mortgage, in a nice area with some huge houses and very rich people around us. We are at a very expensive part of child-rearing with nursery fees etc. and generally don't have spare money. I don't have much personal spending money and tend to buy clothes on ebay and at charity shops, I use all the supermarket coupons and we don't have many holidays, and what we do have is mostly camping.

But we do eat out sometimes, we do buy nice food, we can afford things for our DC, much like you, and day-to-day life is comfortable (frantically busy, but comfortable). I can genuinely say I don't want what my rich neighbours have - I don't want a mansion, I don't want 2 or 3 cars, I don't want to jet off to the caribbean (well I do, but I'm happy to wait until I'm older), I don't want a designer handbag.

I genuinely feel grateful because I know how many people are really, really struggling with having properly not enough money and I feel a bit guilty that we aren't.

There is one thing I do want - more space because our house is cluttered with no storage. I dream of having a garage one day. But we're working towards it and that's a satisfying feeling.

I think working might help you because it gives you that feeling of making something happen IYSWIM?

We are relatively poor.
We have an interest only mortgage and no way of paying it off currently.
If we sold, we would be in negative equity.
We cannot afford the holidays and afterschool clubs for our kids that others do. I buy all my clothes and many of my kids clothes from charity.
We watch our supermarket shop like hawks. Christmas is modest.
I dye my own hair and it gets cut twice a year, dry cut: £9.50.
I shave my legs and pull my own eyebrows out (with worry) and we drive a wreck of a car.
We cant afford to visit relatives etc.
BUT:
Many years ago I briefly went to Mexico.
My Mexican friend met me from the airport.
We went to a central square and bought chicken salads for lunch in a pavement café. I wasn't really hungry. I became aware of a girl, loitering. I smiled and she approached me and spoke to me in Spanish. I asked my friend to translate and he said: 'she says she is hungry, if you don't want your food can she have it please?'. I looked closer at her and she wasn't an 8 year old girl at all, she was an adult woman, stunted through malnutrition and hard work. I asked for it to be wrapped and gave it to her, and thought how lucky I was (am) that I have never been that hungry.

It's all relative.
If you are in the situation you describe above OP you are actually very fortunate compared to many many people.
Look at richer folks and you will 'feel' poor though.
It's trite, but try to count your blessings.

Up until a bit over a year ago, We had a two bed flat in London which we (just) managed to afford and both worked full time. However three quarters of our take home salary went on mortgage and nursery fees! It was ridiculous. We had enough for food, but had to be careful and certainly did not have enough for any kind of holiday or even meals out occasionally. It was very depressing, we were living to work. Combination of no pay rise for several years (public sector) and rising food/utility prices etc. but to other people we probably looked like we were comfortable.

If you have everything that you need, what is it that you want? I'm very conscious these days that all the marketing of products is designed to make you feel that should should have this or that or that you really need it. Do you really? I've been in America recently and the commercialism and attitude that 'I need this because I deserve it' even if that means going into debt to get it, is horrible.

Perhaps you feel like something is missing - what is that? And would more 'stuff' or a bigger house fill that gap? What about thinking of things you could do to create wonderful memories and experiences for you all as a family? Things money can't buy.

thanks for the kick up thearse and pep talk

i suspect my problem is greed really

i tell myself all these things, that we are not poor at all
and to count our blessing
yet i don't know how to stop
i think it horrible to think this way and i dont want to
i totally get what your sayign about africa and the worse thing is ive seen it for myself real poverty, not in africa but in places like thiland etc where people like in huts by the river

i just want to stop myself thinking this way
i know im an idiot