AIBU to have challenged OH on treatment of our baby

[HuskyBlueEyes]

Hello mumsnetters.. Basically my LG is a little over a month old. Tonight is my OH third night of night feeds. Which he argues about quite a lot. I've woken up to the baby utterly shouting her head off and him telling her to shut the fuck up. He also got the arse and 'quite' roughly changed her vest and sleep suit because she piddled. She does cry at a change I've learnt to accept that from the beginning. She's also slept four hours!!! Which is amazing from her usual 2. So I got up and pointed this out and that sues just hungry, picking up on his anger and getting upset herself. He's told me to fuck off and walked off. Was I being U? I can't remember actually being frustrated to that extent with her getting used to night feeds myself. Yes I got frustrated but not to use rougher movements with her or swear. Am I being pfb I guess. May I add he didn't physically hurt her.

Could have written most of what the OP has said myself! Exact same situation other than the swearing and being rough.

Was living with my mum also and DP (now ex) also 20 years old used to come around after 5 nights uninterrupted sleep and get pissy about doing his share.

I'd also have to wake him for work or to feed DS which he'd take so long DS would be getting hysterical so I'd end up having to get up to stop him getting so upset.

Have PM'd you OP. I feel like other than the swearing and being rough this sounds similar to my situation at the end of last year

I can see similarities about DPs family also from what you've said

This is utterly unacceptable and of course you mustn't allow it to happen. But if it was a woman 'losing it' like this we would probably be quicker to recognise that she was unlikely to be a monster, just someone in need of help - especially if this was out of character. I would absolutely speak to HV and do counselling -- but maybe he's just not cut out for night feeds, OP. I know it's too late now and it's unfair and all that - but he may not necessarily be a loser as a father and husband as a result of his behaviour in this. He may be handling the stress/fear of a small baby very poorly, especially if he isn't used to it and isn't able to process the information in the cries as you can. I would act instantly to safeguard your baby, but hold off for the time being on any decisions about the character of the man or your long-term future together.

When you are a parent you don't get to pick and choose aspects of parenting nor do you get to decide you just can't deal with meeting the child's needs because your not cut out for it.

And if it was the mum who had done it loads of people would be asking about PND the rest would be flaming her.expectations tend to be much higher for mums than they are for dads

Op,

I would really suggest you seek outside professional advice even if its just to talk it through,if your relationship breaks down for what ever reason and you have these concerns but have not mentioned them its quite likely they will not be taken very seriously if the first mention of them happens when he applies for contact

Like I say no more nights. He's let his sleepy state get him in a horrible mood and it could have been an awful situation. I also pointed out about the fragile neck. I'm not sure whether he's just seriously dumb as his response was that because she can support her neck quite well he didn't think he had to cradle it 24/7. It's because when I hold her upright I let her do it for short amounts of time as she likes to turn her neck and look around. He's asleep now, whilst I sit on the floor getting her to sleep.

He has though admitted he was in the wrong and it was unfair to swear and be so sharp with her. He said he got it I to his head that she'd never settle without me intervening and it made him frustrated.
I've cut it off short, told him to just go bed in future ill do it myself. I can't ask mum go help she has epilepsy and being up at if hr wrecks havoc on how she feels bless her heart. She gets up anyway bless her, if she heas me really struggling. I'm so tired not eith it so forgive me for whatever I've wrote I'm not quite sure how I've worded it

Well, that was a pretty stupid thing to do, really.

You have now set the pattern he wanted. He gets to sleep. You do all the shitwork. Forever.

Completely the wrong thing to do.. Utterly lose lose for you, and win win for him.

Women spend years trying to get their husbands to do an equal share of the parenting, and moaning like buggery when they won't.

If he isn't going to parent, and you are going to absolve him of any parental responsibility, you might as well have told him to bugger off completely.

Epic fail, op.

I don't really agree with the sentiment 'oh, some people just aren't cut out for night feeds' because surely everybody is exhausted and easily upset when they're sleep deprived? When you're the mother rather than the father you don't often get the chance to opt out.

Still, in these circumstances I wouldn't be leaving him alone with a baby.

Spoke to DH about this thread, as he found it hard at first (as did I). He agreed with putting the baby in her cot and taking a minute to calm down if necessary, and said it's really important your DP spends time with the baby during the day to get used to her - and enjoy her when she's lovely, not just middle-of-the-night grumpy.

(He also thinks night feeds should be shared)

What should she do then Wurst? She can't risk her child's safety, and you don't want her doing all of the night shifts. What alternatives can you give her?

No you are not being unreasonable. Babies wake up through the night. They're meant to as their stomachs aren't big enough to hold enough milk for more than a few hours.

Your dh needs to realise this and you are not being unreasonable to expect him to do one feed a week. If he is losing patience over this you really need to have a chat. Like someone else said even slightly rough treatment of a newborn can cause damage. It is also likely to go on for a long time yet and he may be looking at a year of wake ups. It's what babies do.

Are you concerned about his anger?

Oh that's harsh Wurst. I can totally see why you say Husky is setting a pattern which could give her problems for years to come, but when there's a little baby involved I can't see she has much choice.

Husky, I used to think that every problem could be sorted out by just talking it through, but life has taught me different. I hope you are ok - I'm relieved that you live with your mum. You have much more control and some support which you might not have if you were living with your partner.

Thanks teenybash.
Wurst everyone on this thread has said not to allow night feeds. So I haven't. What more can I do.

No, OP, everyone on this thread, just about, has said to leave him.

Sorry but if he can't even cope with one night feed when he's not even living there, so he's not sleep deprived (because he gets as much sleep as he wants in his own home), sorry but hats pathetic and ridiculous.

He is obviously nowhere near emotionally mature enough to be around a newborn.

If he can't control his anger during his one night feed of the week then there is nothing to say he can control his anger in any circumstance he is looking after her alone.

What about of she's crying for a sustained amount of time during the day?

It only takes a second for irreversible and fatal damage to be caused to a baby. I'm sure every parent of every baby who has been injured or killed by the other parent giving the baby 'a little shake' to stop it crying has said 'I never thought he'd do something like that'.

Sorry but I wouldn't be allowing him to care for her alone at all, no matter what time of day or night.

I really have no idea why women choose to live with men like this.

this is hard work. You are the mother of a tiny baby and you are having to walk on eggshells around this man-child because he's somehow allowed to be an abusive, negligent arsehole because he's young and sleep deprived.

Threads like this make me depressed. No woman should ever live with a man like this, let alone one with a young baby. Or any child for that matter.

His behaviour is abusive. Call a spade a spade.

I'm sorry OP you've had a baby with a man who has no idea how to be a father.

Ooh, I dunno loggie. Maybe get the father to take some parenting classes, get some anger management techniques, get the he to sit down and talk to him 1 on 1.

Or really, if at this early point you have recognized he doesn't actually have a parenting bone in his bone and isn't prepared to develop one, make some sort of decision about becoming a real lone parent. Instead of a lone parent who happens to be shacked up with a penis. Because all that does is perpetrate the cultural norms of 'oh, he's so useless wiv my babba, I have to do everything!' In gleeful tones.

It's insulting to all the real fathers out there, and sets a terrible precedent at this early point in his relationship with his child. If he isn't going to have a relationship with her, it's far better to break it off now, so that both man and child don't grow up believing that women do babies, and men do fuck all with their kids.

If he's an arse, kick him to the kerb. If he has a redeemable bone in his testosterone ridden body, get him to step up and accept he was an utter twat, and learn how to parent like a man. Not lose his rag like a toddler.

And any other women sucking their teeth and advising the op to do everything and let the be-penised one have a nice sleep are just as bad.

Either he steps up, or he ships out.

Only the op knows if he's redeemable or not.

But he doesn't get to be a parent in name only, and to sleep like a king under some load of bollocks like he can't cope. Time to learn how to cope.

Anyone that suggests this is a workable alternative is batshit crazy, and is perpetuating ridiculous stereotypes. And excusing this piss poor excuse of a man, when they should be saying 'oi, shape up, or fuck off'.

Wurstwitch your language is appalling and there is no need for it, especially on a thread about the problems caused by unrestrained anger. It's not a shouting match. This is a really complex issue for the OP and you're sounding now like you just want to be right. Which, in a sense, you are. There's right on both sides, there usually is! Posters have advised the OP to act now to protect her baby. That means letting her partner off the hook, to a certain extent. Not fair to the OP, no. But forcing her partner to care for a baby he's being rough with wouldn't be fair to the baby, would it. As for leaving the man himself, the OP didn't ask for advice about that and being sleep-deprived and all, it's probably not a great moment for her to make a life-changing decision.

OP, I think you should tell your partner that he needs to take his turn in this, and also that it's breaking your heart to feel you can't trust him to be gentle enough with the baby. He clearly needs to gain confidence (to feel he can settle her himself), skills (to know what the cries mean and how to handle her) and a good attitude (surely you talked about the division of labour before the birth? If so, there will be agreements needing to be honoured). I think, to be honest, that it would be good if you offered to stay up with him at first (you're going to be up anyway at the moment), staying in the background where baby can't see you, but offering support. It's important that your partner feels you're on board with him and hanging around to help if he needs it until he doesn't need it any longer, not checking up on him. Don't tell him that you think he can't cope, because it's not fair to say 'you're clearly an unfit parent but you're going to have to parent anyway', say, 'I know you think you can't do this/don't want to do this - but you can, you have to, and I believe you'll be good at it'. I understand how resentful you're feeling but you need to hold back on that, without minimising how devastated you are at the thought of him being rough with the baby.

I wasn't able to be up with my baby at the start. It meant she wasn't as connected to me and it was harder to feel patient with her as a result. Bonding with her in those circumstances was like chasing a moving bus. I wish everyone else had got out of the way and I'd just had to get up with her. Obviously you can't and shouldn't get out of the way in these circumstances, though.

As a side note, I know plenty of men who were reduced to quivering wrecks by night feeds (not saying that they were rough, or that it would be understandable if they were).

Seems to me that your advice is for the father, not the mother.

Don't be daft, wouldbe.

It's entirely up to the op how she handles it, of course.

But if she has made it absolutely clear that the dh was out of line, explained exactly why, told him there will be no repeat of his shabby behaviour, and believes she still wants to be with the guy, then of course he should be caring for the baby.

I am assuming his rougher than advisable handling was as a result of enormous ignorance, combined with middle of the night crabbiness. As an adult who has now been informed that is not acceptable, I would expect any man worth his salt to take it on board and guard against any such future behaviour. And get on with parenting.

If he has been bawled out, but is tragically unable to take the comments on board, and can't be trusted, then he shouldn't be there there'd and tucked up abed. He should be out on his ear.

He's a grown man who has managed to procreate. Now he needs to parent.

Either he understands that what he did was wrong, and can now be trusted, or he needs to go.

I'm really not sure why we infantilise fathers so much. He's got a brain.

It sounds to me as though he's got the best of both worlds, now.

That said, of course, once everyone is awake and in the cold light of day, the op and her dh should work together as a partnership to make sure he understands the care of an infant. And then the op should bugger off to the shops and let him practice.

He's an adult. He can make his own decisions. Either he wants to be a parent, or he doesn't. AT&T he moment he's been signed off parenting duty. Counter-productive in every single way imaginable.

Sorry, my previous comment was addressed to Wurst. Other than telling her to make him do things, what advice do you have for her?

My advice to every woman with a man like this, would be to leave them.

Seriously.

Why would anyone want to bend over backwards making excuses for abusive behaviour like this?

Wurstwitch is right, we infantilise men while privileging them at the same time. They get out of doing their fair share of work, because we deem them not capable of it. The ever-present threat of violence ensures their behaviour goes unchallenged.

The behaviour of this man is simply abusive, both to his child and to the mother of his child. The best thing to do with an abusive relationship, is end it.

It's easy to say 'leave someone' to a random stranger, much harder to do on both a practical and emotional level.

If husbands across the UK were instructed to divorce every mumsnet partner who had ever sworn in the middle of a wakeful night with a newborn, or changed a sleep suit more roughly than they should have during the early days of severe sleep deprivation - our numbers would be considerably depleted.

This may not be relevant here, but is everyone aware that PND can affect men as well as women?

Wurstwitch - What an aggravating post :) We agree that the OP's partner must take on night feeds, and also agree that it is important that he be trusted to do this. There's a HUGE problem in your post as it relates to the timing of all this. Everyone knows he can't be trusted NOW hence your observation that work is needed around issues such as crabbiness, ignorance and inexperience, working together. As the OP isn't throwing him out at the moment, he is still in the picture but he can't turn nightfeeds into shambolic, adrenalin filled chaos, for the baby's sake. Therefore he needs supervision and help from the OP and hopefully other professionals, which will then have a knock-on benefit for the health of baby and mother.

Leaving him to do tomorrow night alone after last weekend's performance, on the strength of a pep-talk, would be negligent. Hence all the work mentioned in the paragraph above.