to be pissed off my cousin is in this shit situation and i cant report it to soical services as they have a previous record of making the situation worse ?

[hammythehamster]

Name changed for this so as to be not to be recognized in real life, ( although i highly doubt the family i am talking about are the type of people to be logging into mumsnet.)

I'm a student, and have recently got back from spending a long weekend with my aunt and uncle. My aunt and Uncle are heavily involved in the day to day care of their granddaughter, ( my cousins daughter, so technically my second cousin,) but have no legal rights over her. She's 14 and there have been ongoing serious issues with her mum and mum's boyfriend for years. For security reasons i'm going to refer to my cousin by the pseudonym Bella throughout this thread.

I hope people don't mind, but this has been an ongoing mess for over a decade, so it's hard to summarize everything succinctly into one post but i'm doing my best, although this may come out as jumbled and less clear than i intend.

So basically:

1. Bella's mum split up with Bella's dad when she was 2. Sees her dad occasionally but little regular contact, dad does not want responsibility of being involved with her seriously, has been periods of 3 + years without contact, ( his choice,) but now lives locally in a one bedroom flat with his new girlfriend.

2. 10 years ago Bella's mum got together with new boyfriend, total an utter twat "Billy." Bella is very uncomfortable around Billy because it has been a very violent relationship, witnessed many physical fights between him and her mum, hospitalized her mum, chased her mum down the street with a knife, smashed up an ipad and iphone of Bella's which were presents to her from her grandparents, ( my aunt and uncle.) Smashed up her grandparents car, sent many abusive text messages to her grandparents, ( basically threats to kill,) when they expressed concerns. The police are aware of some of these incidents, and at one time Bella and her mum were moved into a flat with specialist domestic violence pull cords, but a couple of years later mum go back together with him again, although now they are living separately, my cousin wants to spend alot of time at his house, understandably Bella does not want to go. The relationship is still violent, ( although as far as i'm aware not as bad a s a few years ago,) and Billy is still very, very controlling.

3. Partially because of their problems re the boyfriend, and partly cos my cousin is frankly horrible, her and Bella do not have a good relationship, and she genuinely seems to be spoiling Bella's teenage years, which really saddens me as this should be a carefree time in her life. She is constantly belittling Bella and calling her fat to her face, telling her her clothes make her look fat etc, ( this was in front of me this weekend so i know it's true,) and telling her she's so horrible that nobody would want to spend any time with her. Also spends many nights away for her job/ staying at Billy's house, leaving Bella aged 14 alone for nights on end, sometimes without much food in he house. Bella told a teacher at school this, who phoned my cousin up, but Bella's mum said she was lying, and school left it. ( which i think is appalling, given the social services history*.)

4. After this, Bella was so desperate for some attention, ( this was at a time earlier this year when her mum was banning her from contact with her grandparents, who she normally spends weeks at a time with, due to complaints they had made to social services.) Bella brought vodka into school, ( new school only been there since September,) and started drinking it in lessons. Bella caught and suspended from school, but her mum and Billy have now used this as an excuse to further isolate her from her friends, banning her from seeing any children outside of school, and taking her phone away. Also Billy, ( even though has no right,) regularly uses his time not working, instead of looking for a job, checking facebook to make sure she doesn't have an account as she is being punished, ( really they are just annoyed she put Facebook statuses explaining she was being left alone and what horrible people they were.) It feels the complete ban on an fb account after this, ( not a temporary punishment for being suspended but an indefinite one,) is really his was of further isolating her/ making her life a misery.

5. Social services History: Reported by a distant relative when Bella was 8, mum lied, SS didn't listen to anyone else, case closed.

Last October, re-opened due to neighbors complaints about violent rows, Bella's mum temporarily in police custody but case dropped due to lack of evidence :( ( despite Bella's statement and police photographs of bruises on Bella.) As soon as ss closed the case, Bella's mum stopped all contact between her parents and Bella, as during the investigation her parents had told social services the truth about what had been happening.

During that five months my aunt and uncle, ( Bella's grandparents,) were hysterical with worry about what was happening to Bella. Bella's mum is now bored of having her in the house so is allowing her to stay for weeks on end at my aunt and uncles again. But it's no life for a child, as Bella has no security as to when she will be forced home, Bella's mum still comes round and forces her go to Billy's house for visits occaisionally, and still refuses to let Bellas grandparents let Bella see hher friends. Reguarly comes round and calls her fat etc.

The worst thing is Billy has still banned bella from seeing her grandparents, so Bellas is lying to him that Bella is in her house alone. He lives in he same town, and Bellas grandparents have to be very careful where they take her, as if he sees her with them he will force her mum to take her home. He checks their fb reguarly from different accounts and so they are not allowed to put any photos of bella on it, as again if he found out sshe was at their house he would make her mum remove her. He once saw a video of Bella on youtube, recognized her grandparents wallpaper in the background and made bella's mum get out of bed and take her home.

So i want to report this to soical services, so her grandparents can gain some legal rights and tell Bella's mum and Billy to fuck the fuck off, of course i do. Bella is such a lovely girl and deserrves a normal childhood, not one in fear and hiding from this nutter.

But i can't do it, becuase both times SS have been involved before nothin has been done, despite Bella, her granparents/ wider family/ neighbours etc telling them whats happening. So if i call them im basically going to cause Bella's mum to take her away again. I could not do that as it would make bella's life hell, but by not calling them she has this half life, where she has to constantly hide in her hometownso Billy does not find her with her grandparents.

Absolutly fed up, any genuine advice wuld e welcome, soical services are great at taking babies away at birth but bloody useless when there is actual abuse/ neglect/ sheer dysfunction going on around older children teenagers.. Sorry for the length of post.
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Littlemisssarcastic-no i have never discussed my concerns with Bella's mum. Although i see Bella fairly regularly it is always when she is with her grandparents, or my Nan, ( Bella's great grandmother.) I rarely see Bella's mum as she is very rarely there with her daughter when i am visiting family, and we do not live in the same town, my home town is about three hours from her and my university term time address/ town further. Also although Bella's mum is my first cousin there is 15 years between us, ( I am 21 and she is 36,) so we have never been close enough for her to listen to me anyway.

I wouldn't speak to her on the phone anyway because Bella's mum is known to be very abusive/ threatening and to be frank quite stupid
so the best case scenario is that i would get a load of abuse on the phone and she wouldn't listen, and it is very likely a phone call from me would cause her to make things worse for Bella and her grandparents. Besides I doubt there is anything I could say to her about her incredibly poor parenting skills, that her parents, brother or sister have not already said.

When I did see her this Sunday, ( at my aunts, a rare occasion,) I told her ( truthfully) how much one of my friends had enjoyed spending the day with Bella earlier at the weekend, and she told me quite sharply that my friend must be mad and would change her mind if she knew Bella properly.

Also you ask if Bella's grandparents would like to have her living there permanently. Yes they would, it is not the life they envisaged but they have been used to Bella living with them on a semi-permanent basis for years now, but i do think i would be good if they were given some support from ss about the practical issues of raising a teen that would be helpful. Unfortunately they are to angry with SS, ( for good reasons,) to engage with that support right now, so imo it would be better coming from a family support charity maybe.

No Bella's mum doesn't live with Billy anymore. Bella, her mum and Billy lived together until about five years ago, when Bella's mum and Billy split up and moved into the domestic violence flat. They've moved to another house now tho and although Bella's mum and Billy technically have their own houses, Bella's mum says over and spends alot of time at Billy's house. Bella's mum is also paying the mortgage interest for Billy, ( as well as her own rent on her own house,) as Billy has not worked for the past two years and lives on JSA.

1. Ideally I would want:

2. a legal order, ( residence/ parental rights,) enabling my aunt and uncle to have legal rights over Bella. This will mean they no longer have to hide where they go in town in case Billy sees Bella with them. What i really want to know is can they apply for custody without going through ss ?

3. Billy court ordered to have no contact with Bella or my aunt and uncle, ( restraining order maybe ?)

4. Bella to finally be able to spend time with her friends of the own age, cos I do believe social isolation to be a big problem for her.

4)Like I said earlier I think my aunt and uncle would need some family support about parenting teens, being family and friends carers etc, ( and perhaps respite care for when they go on holiday, ) as they do visit their other daughter in Greece quite alot.

5. Maybe some help from ss for Bella's mum to sort her problems out, ( away from Bella) but i don't hold out much hope on this one.

MrsRuffDiamond- yes i imagine they could, without meaning to sound crass, I don't think money is a problem for them.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/

2 prong approach.

1. GPs call law soc. and ask for a specialist in their area. I think it would come under the broad heading of child protection. This would be from the perspective of the GPs gaining custody.

1. DN needs an advocate so she can explain what she wants. Either solicitor or to keep costs down a charity (Childline/NSPCC might be able to offer some names) and/or CAF (as previously mentioned).

If the GPs see a solicitor, I would advise.

• write everything down - events, timelines and what they want and send it to solicitor first. They will read it before the appointment and it will make a more focused meeting.
• ask if your DN simply refuses to return home (this might be the simplest method) that this can be done ie she cannot be forced to return home. Which would buy time for a more formal agreement to be put in place.
• ask solicitor if charity/CAF can achieve the residency for DN rather than courts if not then can DN have this payed by legal aid as she is a minor.

Ideally you want the simplest and cheapest way of achieving custody (in whatever form) of your DN.

If Bella & her grandparents both wish for her to live at her grandparents then that is what will happen. Grandparents say she wants to live with us, Mum says no she's coming home, doesn't go, calls police & SS will be involved again but they can't MAKE her go anywhere. However, it does require determination from both Bella & grandparents AND possibly losing contact with Mum on both their parts.

So just to check the police/ ss will not make her go back ? Because last October ss made her go back when they had finished the investigation, a social worker actually drove her back to her mum's, even though both Bella and my aunt and uncle made it clear they didn't want her to go.

But i spose your saying if they had just refused point blank ss couldn't have done anything ? There wouldn't have been a child abduction charge as Bella is under 16 ?

I'm guessing the school must know somethings not right, as Bella has a counselor there, told them she was left alone for a week and brought vodka into school ? School is definitely aware of some issues.

Unsure if this is helpful but when I lived in Scotland during the 1990's, I had a 14 year old girl come to stay with me as she was in fear of being assaulted by her mother, having already been assaulted earlier that day. When her mother sent police to remove her, I was advised by a child advocacy service to state that I was giving her a temporary place of safety which then led to social service involvement and the young girl being quickly placed with relatives who were able to give her the protection she needed.

Also i just don't understand Billy's problem. Why is he so insistent that Bella must be locked in her mum's house by herself when her mum is staying at Billy's ? Why is he so determined to stop her seeing her grandparents that he has asked the landlord of a local pub they go into to eat, ( his friend ) to phone him if they turn up with Bella ?

I genuinely don't understand why he is so controlling of a child thats not his/ he doesn't spend much time with. He's not even insisting she's with him, just locked in her house alone ffs.

Thanks for all the advice on this thread btw, i will be phoning up my aunt and uncle later with suggestions.

They can't physically force her, no.

But they do have to stay firm. Presumably in order for Bella to go with SS last time, assurances were given by Bella's mum that things would be different? Bella needs to be firm that things have got worse if anything and that she doesn't feel safe living with her MUM.

I think I understand the situation now.

No one in the family has felt supported by ss, so you want a legally binding order to remove Bella from her mother's care without ss involvement and without her mother's knowledge, because you expect her mother will cause trouble.

You want a restraining order against Billy to protect Bella, because although she doesn't live with him, Bella and other members of your family sometimes bump into him in town where he has been aggressive towards those members of the family.

ss have previously been involved when you made a previous attempt to remove Bella from her mother's house, which resulted in ss returning Bella to her mother's and subsequently, Bella's mother demanded that none of the family involved in this quest to have Bella removed from her care were to have anything to do with Bella.

However, Bella has continued to secretly stay at her grandparents house without her mother's knowledge, because the family continue to be concerned about Bella.

Bella has a counsellor at school but this is not specifically because of difficulties at home.

How many professionals are supporting your family in their quest to have Bella removed from her mother's house? I understand ss have not been supportive, but who outside of the family would be supportive, in a professional sense?

Also was Billy ever charged with the offences you listed in your OP? Surely this would be evidence for a restraining order?

I'm only confused that this has been going on since Bella was 4 years old, yet she is still living with her mother.

I'm sure Bella will end up living with her grandparents, most likely at the expense of any kind of relationship with between her mother and any of the family.

Thanks Littlemisssarcastic you have summarized the situation better than me. What you have said about a legally binding order without her mother's knowledge is pretty much spot on.

Slight clarification: Bella's mum knows she is staying at her grandparents, and months after the ss involvement has now relented and is letting her stay there. It is Billy that still doesn't know she is there. Bella's mum has made it clear Billy is not to find out Bella is there, ( that is why the family are scared to go out with her in town,) because if he does Billy will make Bella's mum take her home. He has made it clear he wants Bella to be locked in Bella's mums house by herself, and Bella's mum to stay with him n his house in a separate town. He hates my aunt and uncle for reporting him to ss, calling the police when he smashed there car and not lending him his mortgage deposit.

He has made Bella's mum lock her up in the house by herself previously. He regularly checks Facebook under different accounts to check Bella is not with her grandparents/ cousins, which is why they cannot put any photos or mention her in status's because he will make her mum take her back to Bella's mums house.

I think the police/ school/ and neighbors would help ? neighbors have had to physically intervene in violent rows before, and have called the police several times.

He has been arrested for some of the events in the op, ( the knife/ smashing up car etc.) but has not been charged, for any of them. Partly because the events involving my cousin, ( Bella's mum,) will usually end in her calling the police but dropping the charges. But i assume the various arrests/ police call outs will stay on record.

Yep I know, it is awful it has been going on, ( on and off, ) since she was four. Like i said there was an original ss investigation, ( the first one,) when she was 8, but her mum managed to talk the social worker round then, and so that was closed.

Like i said she has spent a large proportion of this time, (probably about 70% ) at her grandparents though.

Bella's mum sounds like she's in an extremely abusive relationship, she sounds as frightened of him as the rest of you are.

She knows Bella is with her grandparents but is frightened her boyfriend will find out, and that is a desperately sad situation.

I am concerned about Bella's mother as well as Bella.

Yep it is clearly abusive.

Aside from the violence, she has no money of her own as she has to pay his mortgage interest on top of her own rent, and he often demands she "loan" him money for household items, or buys them on credit for him as she is working and he's not, e.g. the latest was she had to buy a £900 garden fence on credit for him. This has resulted in bailiffs regularly arriving at her house in front of Bella and she has lost cars/ electric goods etc because of it.

Bella's mum has severe weight problems and he has said to my aunt and uncle that, Big fat "Stacey" ( Bella's mum,) will never find anyone else. I guess if he says this in front of others he must say worse in private.

But it has been pointed out to Bella's mum for years he is abusive. The fact she was put in a domestic violence flat with pull cords and still chose to get back with him, and has split and got together with him many times suggests she won't be leaving him anytime soon.

1. Your aunt and uncle can apply to the court for permission to apply for a residence order without involving SS themselves. As Bella's been living with them for a while, permission is likely to be granted. They would need RL legal advice as to whether they'd be likely to get residence.

2. The court has the power to order this if the judge feels it appropriate.

3. The court would want a report, probably from CAFCASS but possibly from SS, and if SS became involved it may be possible to arrange some form of support, although funding is always the sticking point.

4. Pretty unlikely, particularly if Bella is kept safe by living with her grandparents under a residence order.

This sounds similar to what happened to me growing up.
I moved in with my grandparents after being left on my own for too long and getting food out of supermarket bins.

I felt like I was betraying my mum by living with my grandparents but now I'm an adult I don't know why I didn't sooner!

I wasn't even on ss radar and no one knows the true extent of anything that happened to me.

Just wanted to say that I hope bella will be ok, moving in with her grandparents will really be for the best for her.
You sound like a lovely cousin - I wish I had had someone like you who I could've talked to but who wasn't a Carer/guardian.

Billy is obviously an abusive bully.
I can't help but worry that he wants her to have no friends/family so that she becomes as dependent on him as her mum.
He has no rights at all and tbh I'm disgusted that the poor girl wasn't removed from her mum when she got back with him.

Well, nobody need worry for much longer diddl because before long, Bella's mother will have no one apart from her bullying boyfriend.

I would hope that Bella's mother is getting support, because I have a feeling she is going to need it very soon.

It sounds to me as though this wretched Billy has convinced the entire family that he's Lord Fucking Voldemort and can do what he likes. He has no legal rights at all over Bella and the grandparents should tell him to go fuck himself and that they will do as they see fit. If he damages their property or makes abusive phone calls, they need to call the police and log the harassment.

How long ago was Bella forced to go back to her mother's by SS? At 14 she should be able to choose who she lives with (up to a point - a 14-year-old who wants to live with her grandparents will be more likely to be allowed this than a 14-year-old who wants to live with a boyfriend, of course). Bella's mother should be told to fuck off by the grandparents, as well - harsh though it may seem, a woman with an abusive partner should be fairly easy to intimidate enough to make her leave Bella alone.

Coldflightoftoday-My aunt and uncle originally found them unhelpful when the first investigation was started when Bella was 8, ( reported by a very distant relative,) they were interviewed as part of the investigation and told the truth about the abuse, violence and dysfunction that surrounded Bella, but it appeared ss didn't listen as they closed the case.

The second investigation was in October 2013, so Bella would have been 13 at this point when she was forced to return to her mum's by ss.

Apparently ss told my aunt she had arranged an escape plan with Bella if she were to need it. My aunt and uncle couldn't believe what they were hearing, surely if you need to plan an emergency escape plan for a 13 year old it is not safe for them to be in the house.

Aunt also said she never saw/ spoke to the same worker twice.

Tried to arrange contact with Bella after she was returned to her mum's, social worker told her that she had not spoken to her own grandchild in years so my aunt should accept there were some families like that.

Yeah i am also surprised that didn't lead to action from the school. They just asked Bella's mum if it was true that she had left her for a week and seemed to take it at face value when she said Bella was lying. Obviously they may have logged/ reported it as well without our knowledge, bu if they have, nothing seems to have come of it.

SGB-it's not that the family are scared of Billy, if he turned up they would never let him in their house/ hand Bella to him. However it is that he would make Bella's mum get her if he knew she was there, and they were under the impression from SS advice that as both Bella's mum and real dad have parental rights and therefore they would be legally obliged send Bella back if someone with parental rights demanded it, ( not that Bella's actual dad would ever demand this.) It's because my cousin has used her parental rights to stop them having contact with Bella in the months after the October SS investigation.

But having spoken to my aunt and uncle they are going to try and confidentially consult a solicitor about the possibility of applying for residence, I don't think they would want to do a CAF as they have had enough of ss not actually helping the situation.

Jesus what an awful situation, I don't have any real advice to give as I don't know the whole process and how it works but I would think at 14 if she refused to go back who exactly could make her? She's with her grandparents. Would the police actually make her go back?? And if ss made her go back to that environment I'd see a solicitor about that!!