AIBU to have said nothing about this incident. Not world shattering just well, rude.

[lolaisafuckertoo]

At a new school. Haven't made many if any friends. But on nodding status with a few folk who have kids in my dd's year.
Dropped DD to school other morning. went for a coffee in Starbucks sat down. Opposite me is one of the other mums who turned her chair round offering me her back. Some others arrive, start pulling chairs and tables together, took the one beside me. At one point one of them is as close as a few inches....no eye contact, not a hello....nothing, just getting together as many chairs as poss creating a ring of steel.

I sat for about another half an hour, joining in the pretending that nothing was happening before leaving with as much dignity as I could find eventually bursting into tears in the car park.

Should I have leaned over and said something or would I have achieved absolutely nothing. I am still bewildered by my own behavior and theirs

The op was alone and the others were in a group, so I think the onus is on the group to initiate contact.

It's a nice idea, but in fact there isn't any onus on anyone to initiate contact with anyone really - if the person on their own wants friends but the people in the group aren't particularly looking for new people to hang out with, then the onus is on the person who is trying to initiate contact.

I think of the school gates as like a commute - I used to get on the train with the same 50 or so people every day. All we had in common was this train journey. I occasionally smiled or said hello to the people that I saw at the station, and sometimes nodded or smiled or even exchanged small talk with one of the regulars from the train if something particularly exciting happened, like a delay or a ticket inspector.

Some of the people getting the train knew each other, either from working together or from previous train encounters, so they would sometimes sit together or move from their seats to talk to one another as other people got on and off. I never expected anyone to include me in their friendship groups, just as I wouldn't have invited a lone traveller to sit with me and friends on the days when I would chat with colleagues or other commuters that I knew.

If someone had wanted to chat to me and was looking for a train buddy, I would probably have shared a bit of mindless chat for the ten minutes that we were on the train, but it would have taken a lot for me to want to meet up with them outwith our usual interaction on the train itself, whereas I would occasionally meet up with people that I knew better for lunch or a drink after work, or even a coffee in the station cafe if there were delays.

School is just the same - you spend a certain time in the same place with a range of other people for reasons which are nothing to do with your personality. Wanting to be included in someone's existing friendship group is understandable, but expecting to be automatically included just by virtue of your sudden presence at the ritual of picking up/dropping off is a little unrealistic.

OP - I'm sorry that this experience affected you so much, and I hope that it was a case of mismatched expectations rather than anything more sinister. Could you volunteer for something at the school so that you have more opportunities to meet other parents outside of their existing friendships with one another?

GET THIS STRAIGHT! I didn't think it was a consipiracy or sinister. simple lack of manners. I did make eye contact. now words were passed I agree that there are very uinique factors in such situations. I tend to say hello to people whether or not I speak to them as a rule, I have said hi to some of these women before.

I did not want to be included in a group.

I wanted my presence acknowledged. I am quitea grown up girl. I know how to make friends. it was the lack of manners that upset me the most.

As a human, we need acknowledgement sometimes. In my position, I am in a foreieng country, new school...so on.

Perhaps in my unique cicrcumstance hello woul have been nice from other people who have been in my shoes. manners cost nothing. I would not break it down into who is such and such, how well do I know them, how many words can I give them based on a formula of how well I know them.
Just a HI

Sorry to be a bore, lola, and I do sympathise. BUT I must take issue, pedantically, with "manners cost nothing".
they do cost something. The person who bothers to behave with good manners, all the time, is actually expending a significant amount of energy on this.
There is a reasonable distinction, also, to be made between manners (minimal) and friendliness (extra). where to draw that distinction is a matter of argument I suppose (not one I feel like having).
but you know, it costs. It all costs. Some people more than others.
Even recognising you takes mental energy some people don't have.

Haven't read the whole thread but the line "bewildered by my own behaviour" stands out. Often friends and my own DCs have complained that someone hasn't "acknowledged" them and they're quite put out by it but it usually transpires that they did nothing to acknowledge the other person, just expected to BE acknowledged.

If you had tried to engage them and they blanked you, I would say YANBU but otherwise, no.

Oh for heaven's sake - it's not 'mental energy, it's a "hi". It takes no more mental energy to do that than it does to decide whether to order tea or coffee.

I was brought up to think of others before myself always, regardless of how inconvenient it was to me. I don't always reach that high standard but I do regard the expenditure of energy on good manners as absolutely necessary, just as necessary as finding the time and energy to brush my teeth so I don't inflict bad breath on those around me. I have never even contemplated that I could think of good manners as optional.

Exactly Mimsy.

Blanche to gve you a picture, I did not sit in my seat in a trembling state of high dudgeon(sic) because I thought I had been ignored when I know full well I am extra special and deserve a marching band everywhere I go.
This is not the case.
I nodded, make eye contact (not a total Mexican wave but..) and the person promptly turned their chair round.

A complete fuck you in my book.
Good manners should be like breathing, automatic. not something you chose to bestow on some and not others.

For an example...I will say hello and thank you to the person who serves me in the café. They have not been life long buddies....just good manners.

I am a laaayyydddeeeee

Right, allmimsy, but that doesn't mean they cost nothing.
Maybe you were brought up to always offer visitors tea. that is very nice, but it doesn't mean tea costs nothing. OK, it doesn't cost as much as steak and claret, but it doesn't cost nothing.

double negative all bet that cost you very little also

I would say if they were other expats then they were being especially rude, as it really is quite nasty in expat circles to blank the newbie. They don't need to invite you to a sleepover and braid your hair, but seriously they should say 'hello'. As you say, all expats know the 'newie' feeling and should extend the basic courtesy of acknowledging their existence! It can be tough and lonely at the beginning and we all know that.

Some people are simply not as evolved, OP. Seek out the nice ones.

Now you've got the bitches placed, you have saved yourself a lot of problems in the future. I sometimes wish I were black so I wouldn't have that shocking discovery when someone who seemed so nice and maybe even did me a favour turns out to be a racist.

lolaisafuckertoo

I'm not sure if your last comment was directed at me, but if so then it is clear that you haven't taken my comments in the spirit that they were intended. You said you had been in tears, I was hoping to offer sympathy and a suggestion, but it sounds as though your sadness has turned to anger which is probably the healthiest thing. If you are sure that these women were being deliberately rude then best you know now I suppose. Good luck in all your future school gate encounters.

allmimsy - a "hi" costs nothing. Literally nothing. Nadda. Zilch. Manners are fantastic things - and they are completely and utterly free.

YANBU. It costs nothing to smile and say hello to someone you recognise.

dojo it really should be instinctive amongst adults to show the minimum of civility by saying hello and/ or smiling. It doesn't cost unless you are severely depressed. It should cost more in mental energy to decide actively to ignore someone.

Best way I found in the US to make friends was when I started meeting transplants from other areas, they too are ostracized like you have been OP. After years in the US all my friends were from other areas. It's that or start going to Church (I never could muster up that courage)
It seems locals who have lived in an area a long time seem to close ranks, they will nod and say hello but seem to have enough friends/family and don't need any more.
20 years in one town I had 6 friends, all from other areas, we met for coffee every week and welcomed other stragglers, most moved on but a couple are still close to the group. Now I've moved I stay in touch with facebook and email.

SallyMcgally

Not sure if you have mixed me up with someone else but nowhere have I argued that there is any excuse for adults to be rude.

yeah. Squinkies. suddenly this all seems so trivial with the news that Peaches Geldof is dead. 25. What the fuck am I moaning about really? Someone was rude....whatever. I am still alive, so are my kids...

My apologies dojo I have mixed you up. Was responding to allhail. Sorry about that.