AIBU to have said nothing about this incident. Not world shattering just well, rude.

[lolaisafuckertoo]

At a new school. Haven't made many if any friends. But on nodding status with a few folk who have kids in my dd's year.
Dropped DD to school other morning. went for a coffee in Starbucks sat down. Opposite me is one of the other mums who turned her chair round offering me her back. Some others arrive, start pulling chairs and tables together, took the one beside me. At one point one of them is as close as a few inches....no eye contact, not a hello....nothing, just getting together as many chairs as poss creating a ring of steel.

I sat for about another half an hour, joining in the pretending that nothing was happening before leaving with as much dignity as I could find eventually bursting into tears in the car park.

Should I have leaned over and said something or would I have achieved absolutely nothing. I am still bewildered by my own behavior and theirs

Sigh

I think I'll have to hide all these threads. The 'bunch of cliquey bitches' crap does my head in.

I genuinely don't know how so many people have drawn the conclusion that these women were rude/nasty/cliquey/bitchy etc...without knowing whether the OP made any attempt whatsoever to say hello or initiate a conversation.

If she didn't (because remember we don't actually know) then they may well have assumed she was waiting for someone else.

So you went for coffee. Sat alone as you do.

Woman went for coffee to meet her friends. She arranges her table to meet her friends.

You are not her friend. She barely knows you past the word hello. She's arranged to meet actual friends. But she's unreasonable for not asking you to join?

There could have been several people she barely knows there. Is she supposed to ask all of then to join her and her friends on the off chance they might decide to be offended otherwise?

Mn is bloody odd sometimes. I know the cleaner at our coffee house. I smile she smiles but that's it. If I saw her in sainsburys am I supposed to buy her dinner?

As Yambabe said, I don't understand why anyone would expect to be invited into an established friendship group, just because they happened to have a child in the same class.

It's not even a question of expecting, it's a question of wanting.

You're new to an area. You don't know anyone. You might be lonely. And you certainly don't necessarily have the confidence (I wouldn't) to go up to who you see as established people and ask to join. You wait (and hope) to be invited.

I don't understand why some of you can't be empathetic enough to see this.

The OP still hasn't said whether or not she said hello/tried to initiate any conversation with them

I would never have the confidence to do that.

I don't really see what the bigger group did that was all that rude. You've no idea how long they've been friends for, maybe they're friend friends as opposed to just school mum friends, maybe it was a quick meeting about something, or they just wanted to catch up with each other, they could have a standing arrangement. The woman who moved the chairs could have been grabbing chairs as other posters have said.

I know a parent who complained vociferously to me about how another mum ignored her all the time, the mum in question can't recognise faces without her glasses.

I think you're taking it a bit to heart, I don't think it was a snub or a slight, I just think it was a group of friends who were meeting in the same place you were having coffee.

NannyOgg if you didn't have the confidence to simply say hello to a few mums in Starbucks, surely you wouldn't want to sit with them all either and actually have to chat with them?

Not being confident enough to say hello or initiate a conversation is fair enough...but to then consider everyone else around you is rude for not doing the same thing, is a bit off.

There is sitting with your back to someone and there is moving to deliberately change so you have your back to someone. Both totally different.

I do agree that there might be many varied reasons why these women aren't being bitches and may either not have recognised the op, or presumed she was happy alone, or that someone else had spoken to her, or that they wanted a catch up with close friends. None of that is unreasonable.

What is unreasonable are some of the posts to the op, who is clearly struggling a bit to make friends in a new place implying she is being unreasonable or entitled to hope that people will be friendly. You are not wrong that she might need to be a bit more proactive but have a bit of compassion and empathy!

Cross posted with nannyogg. Totally agree and that's what I'm trying to say.

fuck 'em

however boom boom and other posters make good points .

This incident has not said you are a bad person . It was just an incident .
Possibly decide what upset you and if it matters do something different next time / or don't . It doesn't sound to me btw that you were being deliberately excluded - more thoughtlessness on their part . I would next time say as pp have already advised "hello I'm so and so (lolaietc ) "

If they then continue to be rude - formulate another plan. I suspect they won't

And worra sitting and chatting to people who have welcomed you and asked you to join them is very different to going up to a big group of friends and asking to join in. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

I think you're overreacting and agree "ring of steel" etc is really melodramatic!

They might not have recognised you, or even if they did you barely know each other so I'm not sure why you would expect them to involve you out of nowhere. They had arranged to have coffee in a group of friends and you happened to be in there. If I saw you, didn't really know you but vaguely recognised I would assume you wanted your peace and quiet unless you struck up conversation or something yourself. It's not necessarily rude of them.

From the thread I get the impression you need to boost your confidence a bit. However I wasn't there so I obviously can't tell what vibes the others were giving out! It may have been bitchy but my first impression is it's not.

For clarification; I did try to make eye contact, gave a smile but then she turned her back. this is before her friends arrived and the table arranging began.

I can perfectly understand seeing someone and thinking they may prefer to be left in peace. I did not expect them to initiate a conversation; the problem was that there was no foothold for me to make any head way with them. I am sorry if someone thought "ring of steel" very charged, but that's how it felt. Deliberate exclusion.

Earlier in the year I got a head of steam up and began to start random conversations with other mothers a couple of which left me feeling like a right clown and a few worked out.

IT was a total outright "no thank you". Which of course everyone is entitlted to do, as much as I am entitled to feel very embarrassed and hurt by. I do realize that relationships cover a lot of terrirtory. People on nodding terms, people we speak to {lovely morning Lola} type of stuff and then very close friends. I did not necessarily wish to join their cabala but some acknowledgement would have been common courtesy. Plain bad manners. I then sat there like a twat for 20 inutes because leaving any sooner would I think have looked like a total flounce.

Oh good grief, I will not dare to meet friends for coffee ever again in case I offend someone I've never met.

They probably assumed you were on your own because you wanted to be, or because you were meeting someone else. I fail to see how they could have rude just because they didn't unfurl a banner and roll out the welcome waggon.

School gates are rubbish places for making friends anyway. You've got a much better chance by joining a club or something.

I don't think they were at all rude or mean in any way.

They were meeting friends for coffee and the ones that sort of know you acknowledged you.

It wouldn't even have occurred to me that they were rude

Cross post. OK then, now you know they don't want to be friends. So you can move on and let them exist in their insular little bubble, unfettered by new thought, ideas or conversations and secure in their own (probably quite boring) company.

It left me feeling uncomfortable and self conscious, something I did not find very enjoyable. it didn't ruin my day, but left a nasty afterglow.

Laurie the woman saw me, deliberately turned her chair around. I didn't want welcome banners. Hello would have sufficed.

But she didn't turn her chair round because of you, she turned it round surely to make more room?

Harriet that's a bit over the top really as a response. Totally unnecessary really. Well done you in your big confident boots and all the rest. I am not you

She saw me, eyecontact and then She turned her chair, her friends arrived and then the table arranging started. Should I do a diagram with the timings attached? HOw do you want the information fed to you so you can dismiss myf eelings about it?

Sorry you experienced this, but by the sounds of it, you have made not effort whatsoever. You are on 'nodding' terms with some of the mums? And that's it? How about next time, saying 'hi' next time, and asking how she is.

I have said this before, and I hate that it sounds heartless, but honestly that is not my tension. Posters who post things like this, I really feel for them, because they seem completely and utterly lacks in any introspection. You were upset and angry at this incident, but you weren't questioning. You weren't questioning why. Why did these women ignore me. Is it because they honestly haven't noticed me, because the extent of my interaction with others is to nod to them?

To be honest, I have never been without friends, never been on the sidelines. What I can say is that in all the groups of friends of friends I have had throughout my life, we don't spend our time bitching and sniping. In a situation such as you describe, it would the case that we didn't notice you or maybe we did but we figured you like your own space given your pervious interactions, or perhaps one of the group wanted to discuss her impending divorce and no one felt it would be appropriate to invite someone else.

Excuse typos

May be they thought you were enjoying some peace and wanted to be alone

maybe they were a book club and discussing that, or discussing matters they didn't want others in on

its not really compulsory to invite everyone in the coffee shop to join them, even if your kids do attend the same school

I'm not dismissing your feelings.

They are irrational but they are your feelings. There is no way that this woman's behaviour can be attributed to malice, other people's rarely can.

You come across as a perfectly nice woman on here but it's quite clear from this thread that you have confidence or self esteem issues. There is nothing wrong with you

And they were meeting friends for coffee, you're reading way too much into their behaviour,

I don't think anyone has dismissed your feelings I think everyone can empathise with you. What many people including myself think is that you are overreacting, seeing things that are not there because you're feeling insecure and I'm confident at the moment. It's ridiculous for people to assume these women are bitches or rude or cliquey. They were friends meeting for coffee and you are not their friend!

It would've been nice if they could have thought that you'd need a smile and a hello as you are new but that's life and I bet you they didn't recognise you. I'm sorry I don't buy for one minute that this woman looked you in the eye and Icily turned her back on you.