to vote UKIP?

[runnerBeanee]

Over time I have warmed to UKIP. I see the other parties as self serving bullshitters. Recently I looked at schools for dd, every local school is bursting at the seams, bulge years etc and it's likely I won't get a school of choice. I've been told be teachers and other parents that a high percentage of the children at said schools do not speak English, so rather than teaching maths, the teachers spend more time just trying to teach English to non English speakers.

I live in an average area, I've been told be friends in other areas that it's the same there. There's not enough housing, schools and NHS resources to cope with the levels of immigration. So which stupid power hungry politicians decided it was a good idea to allow all this immigration when there wasn't the infrastructure to cope with it or the funds to pay for more schools etc?

I'm not from a 'British' family myself and have plenty of non British friends, it's not about racism, it's common sense, you can't have an uncontrolled surge in population and expect public services to cope unless you're happy to pay for it. Though I'm sure the govt arehappy that this has caused wages to be driven down...

Aibu?

(That was addressed to Impatient)

Well I've read all the comments. I assume that some of you live I'm areas less impacted by immigration or have big houses, children in private school and private healthcare so unaffected by the pressure on public services that immigration has exacerbated.

My children used to go to a primary school that was very multicultural, in a area that had high levels of immigrants, mainly social housing and very high deprivation (top 10 deprived areas in England). Some of the children started school without more than a few words of English and some would start higher up the school as new arrivals in Britain with no English at all. My children's education did not suffer at all, in fact the school was much better than the 98% white British intake school that they started at when we moved house.
How schools deal with EAL is much more important than the percentage of children who have EAL.

So, as long as UKIP can make sure your own children don't have to put up with these immigrant children you'll vote for them?

You aren't the slightest bit concerned about what they want to do with the old and disabled? You don't care about the environment?

So long as you're all right. Nice attitude.

And no, I don't live in a big house where there are no immigrants, with my kids in private education. I live in a small council house, in a city and I work with plenty of children with English as a second language who manage to learn our language just fine in a few months.

I live in an area of very high immigration. My children's school has had to have a 'bulge year' and most of the new joiners are immigrants. My son is the only white English born boy in his class now (actually he's mixed race but very fair - he insists he's white). There is one white English born girl, and all the rest are the children of immigrants.

My personal feeling is that these families and children are a great asset to the school and to the country as a whole. Despite being in one of the poorest wards in the borough my children's school is the highest achieving in terms of numbers of children getting all level 4's in their SATS (90%). This is because immigrant families on the whole have a fantastic respect for education, a good work ethic, and are enterprising. You have to be pretty determined and bright to up sticks with your whole family and to move to a country where you don't speak the language and try to establish yourself in that place.

Sorry - that should be 95% (and yes OP - most of the immigrant children start school not speaking English, but they leave school achieving highly so it's all good).

I agree Fideline - dismissing people who don't vote the way you do as 'dim' is unhelpful and divisive

OP you are free to vote for who you want to but please do find out the facts rather than listening to the hyperbole

Immigration is a giant smoke screen designed to hide the real issues

runnerBeanee, what is it that UKIP have told you they are actually going to do to change the situation to improve your children's education?

"Thanks for those who've also commented on how this has affected them. I care about my children's education"

I do to, which is why I'm so happy to see bright and hard-working children from other countries being educated alongside my son.

This is what pisses me off about the media - they seem to bigging-up UKIP, they are never off the television, their exposure far far outweighs their support.

Not true - it's worked out very carefully, based on the last elections and the relevant voting percentages. Which is why there's more UKIP than there was, and why there was a bit of BNP a few years ago when it was picking up more of the vote but now no-one's voting for them there's nothing.

I couldn't care less whether people choose to vote the same way as me. I still think people who are unable to separate rhetoric from reality are dim. People who read newspaper headlines and believe every word and base their vote on that do concern me when the elections are held because I am not sure that they really have a clue about what they are actually voting for.
I don't feel that voting is taken very seriously by a large number of the population. I feel that everyone should have the right to vote as long as they are mentally and rationally capable of making informed decisions.
My eldest son will soon have the right to vote, but he will be unable to exercise that right because he has very severe learning disabilities, cannot speak or read or write and doesn't understand politics. People who cannot do those things cannot cast a vote themselves, so the idea of universal franchise is lost on me because I am well aware that rights and abilities are too different things.

And yet more evidence that Labour needs to get its act together and offer the electorate a coherent set of policies which acknowledge how badly wrong so many aspects of our society are (state of education, NHS, widening gap between rich and poor etc...)

Until they do, people will turn to parties like UKIP

That reads like back-pedalling Impatient

Back in my teaching days my Maths lessons also included Greek, Latin and Arabic as much of the language around maths is based in Greek and Latin and our number system is Arabic.

With maths and the sciences English speaking children have to learn just as much 'foreign' languages as the children who don't have English as a first language. How on earth do you get a child to understand what a centimeter is and it's relationships to other measurements if you don't understand what 'cent' means? Many of the students who had English as a second language were actually better at this skill as they had experience in dissecting and translating parts of unfamiliar words to come up with an understanding of the meaning of complex words. I would argue that this actually made the classroom experience a richer one for all the children as it would lead to discussions about the roots and links of languages and the cultural ideas behind them. In the classes with only native English speakers, this process was slower and in my opinion not as rich. These students were missing out on a skill which any adult needs to function in our literate world.

But hey, keep them foreign kids out and they won't need to worry about proper understanding will they. They can stick to believing the crap that comes out of politicians mouths without having to analyze it. That's how Hitler got a foothold, by blaming the 'other' for all perceived ills and pandering to xenophobia.

Remove the foreigners from the British education system and the NHS and it will collapse both systems.

I assume that some of you live I'm areas less impacted by immigration or have big houses, children in private school and private healthcare so unaffected by the pressure on public services that immigration has exacerbated.

Actually, I live in a 2 up 2 down and the only "private" school that either of my kids will ever attend is an independent special school. The local population is 98% indigenous WASP with very few immigrants, recent or otherwise, yet, still, the area has plenty of mediocre schools, NHS services stretched to breaking point and shockingly high unemployment.

OP, of course you should take your children's education seriously. But how do you honestly think UKIP are going to tackle this problem, given that the 'non-speaking immigrants' are already being taught in school?

The only solution is to put more money into education, not vote for a party who quite openly thinks that certain sections of society are unequal.

I am not saying that there are not problems with immigration. What I am saying is that your needs will not be met by a party whose only agenda seems to be to stir up hatred and intolerance.

Nobody chooses to be gay, disabled, black, female, whatever. We play the cards we are dealt.

Impatientismymiddlename Thu 03-Apr-14 13:10:25
I couldn't care less whether people choose to vote the same way as me. I still think people who are unable to separate rhetoric from reality are dim. People who read newspaper headlines and believe every word and base their vote on that do concern me when the elections are held because I am not sure that they really have a clue about what they are actually voting for.
this is exactly why people vote for UKIP as if they don't experince the negative effect of immergation and welfare for the selfs and when they tell people this is what they have personally experienced the left shout liar or rasicst.a lady I know who is white works pt and has 3 children and lives in a two bed flat works full time in tesco and was born here feels growing resentment to the lady who lives up stairs in the 3 bed flat also with 3 kids who has never worked and only arrived here in the uk 5 years old the life style she and the lady up stairs leads don't differ much and actually the lady up stairs net income is actually more the issue is when ever the lady I know voices her view the lft tell her the woman in the tower block Donets exist and that for her thinking if you have just arrived you pretty much should be behind in terms of housing of somone who was born her and works she gets called a rasict the only people listening are UKIP

I am not white and I can understand where the lady is coming from

tiggytape

My post was jumbled you hit the nail on the head

I still can't understand how UKIP have any sort of immigration policy that will have a direct bearing on the OP's children.

If UKIP won the General Election for example, they're not going to go out with wagons and round up all the non-English speaking children out of schools.

That reads like back-pedalling Impatient

Well you are entitled to think and say that, but I think the sentence 'mentally and rationally capable' doesn't really change my stance. I still think that people who vote for headlines rather than actual beliefs and policies are not making informed decisions and their ability to vote in my opinion is questionable. I don't think that voting is taken seriously enough in his country.
If somebody wants to vote UKIP, even though it would never be my party of choice, then that is fine as long as they are fully informed of what they are voting for. If somebody wants to vote UKIP because they believe the headlines about how schools can be vastly improved by eradicating the majority of immigration then I don't think they are fully informed and that they need to seriously think about their actions and do some research before placing their x in the little box to get the dream non EAL school.

What you actually said Impatient was;

Alas, we live in a democracy"

And

"People who think....that Nigel Farage can solve the issue really shouldn't have a vote"

Labour nor the other party's are addressing peoples concerns I actually think immgertaion Is a good thing however

I do resent the fact that the EU have control of who we can and can't have in this country and I would like to see much more controlled imagination

We need nurses doctors and ambulance crew not cleaners and nannys I do believe immergation and welafre are interlinked but not the way many do

I think we need to stop people coming to do low skilled jobs then we need to get OUR unemployed to do those jobs weather they want to or NOT

It's madness to have polish and others coming to clean our streets ECt when we have so many unemployed who should be made to work and do those jobs and then we should only allow in the type of immergation we need eg nurses ,midwifes engineers

Can you blame people for not knowing their options or not believing they have many?

No, I don't blame people for that. I do think that politics is hugely confusing and often full of false promises. I do understand that so many people feel failed by all the parties that it is difficult to choose somebody to vote for. I still think it is 'dim' to vote for a party based on lots of EAL children populating the local schools and a teacher complaining about how it affects her ability to teach maths.

poster Fleta. I think what the op is getting at is that of the parents couldn't speak English which is very likey they wouldn't be here in the first place to clog the schools up

I think