to think that the minimum wage should be higher in London

[bottlenecker]

I really do not understand how the national minimum wage can possibly be the same in London as the rest of the country. How on earth can anyone live on that minimum wage?

I don't disagree that is not a living wage but it is far more expensive to live in London.

I live just outside Brighton. I can assure you it is not far cheaper round here.

Percydarling
Nor does a barista in Newcastle work harder than a barista in Delhi. But hey, it's more expensive to live in Newcastle.

Ditto Saucy, but for Brighton read Cornwall

Deliberately misconstruing my point there OP.
Delhi and Newcastle not under the same govt. if my politics serves me correctly.

Lots of jobs have 'London weightings' to them!

I do not live in a cheap area and I do not live in an area with a great wage.

YABU!

YANBU.

Having lived in London and also elsewhere around the country, you are only being realistic that living in London is SO much more expensive. I have lived in some of the other fairly expensive cities (Edinburgh, bristol...) but costs wise they are nothing on London.

In London a 1 bed flat will be at least £1000 per month and that is in the cheaper areas. Compare that to the northern town where I come from, where you can rent a 4 bed house for £500. Yes people can move out of London if they can't afford to live there, however we would then all be stuffed as we would not have anyone to do the necessary but low paid jobs in London.

I don't understand how anyone can live on NMW in London. Hats off to anyone who can. NMW makes life tough wherever you are in the country but especially in London - costs really are so much higher and it's not entitled to say so.

The only thing that I do wonder though is that would pretty much everyone on NMW be getting housing benefit? Presumably they can't afford to ever buy on that wage so renting it is, and when renting on that income I think you would be given HB? If so then they effectively do have a top up to their NMW as the HB they receive is higher and goes some way to addressing the gap in accommodation costs.

There is a "London living wage" which some companies use to reflect the fact you can't really live on NMW in London. I think a living wage should be paid every where, of course, but the truth is you can get by with slightly less difficulty on that income in other parts of the country. I won't say it is easy anywhere!

Public sector workers get a London weighting and still seem to think they get a raw deal compared with private sector employees.

SaucyJack

Really?
I am sure like for like it's cheaper in Brighton than London. i.e. A central soughtt after flat in Brighton will be cheaper than a sought after central flat in London.

Having said that Brighton is 'London by the sea'

If you can't afford to live in London then you can't afford to live in London.

Move!

Methe
London needs low paid workers to function, if London goes down so does the rest of the country.

Everywhere needs low paid workers to function.

I agree- I think the minimum wage should be weighted in line with accommodation costs.

A single parent on NMW cannot even afford to rent a 2 bed flat in most areas- not just centrally. And that's without bills, food and clothing.

That is appalling.

Since rents won't be capped, wages must rise.

Percydarling

I am talking about the cost of living not the government. We are in a situation where London has a different cost of living than much the rest of the country. It's not just property.

It is recognised by most employers and most salaried staff working in London will get paid more than if they work outside of London. The lowest paid workers fall through the net. I think it's wrong.

I am beginning to think I suggested bankers bonuses should be increased. We're talking about cleaners etc here. The people who keep the city running.

I agree- I think the minimum wage should be weighted in line with accommodation costs.

A single parent on NMW cannot even afford to rent a 2 bed flat in most areas- not just centrally. And that's without bills, food and clothing.

That is appalling.

Since rents won't be capped, wages must rise.

Methe, you can buy a really lush flat in nice areas of bristol, e.g nice old 2 bed high ceiling end flat with garden in clifton, for the price of a studio flat on the holloway road! Or you can get some lovely family houses in bristol for the same price as a gritty london studio if you go outside a little bit or south of the river. The prices are not comparable at all. (I'm a bristol resident and ex Londoner who left because i could not afford to buy in London, among other reasons)

"If you can't afford to live in London then you can't afford to live in London.

Move!"

Really?

ALL teachers, nurses, firefighters, train drivers, cleaners, nursery workers, road sweepers, refuse collectors, social workers.... Should just move?

Could you not see any problems arising there?

Methe

Of course every where needs low paid workers. You were suggesting if they couldn't afford to live in London they should move out!
Where are they going to move to, flood the market for low paid jobs in other cities.

There is a very real problem about low pay in the country I understand that but it is more acute in London. We are draining our capital city of honest hard workers because they can't afford to work here.

Tethersend.. Those people do not get NMW.

methe

Cleaners, nursery workers, bar staff, to name a few are on minimum wage

They they can be supported by the government like the rest of the country.

Some of the people I listed do, Methe. Others don't- and they still could not afford to live in London without additional financial support.

Don't you think there's something perverse about working full time and still having to rely on welfare payments to survive?

Since the HB caps are flat and not a percentage of market rent, the problem is compounded.

Well my understanding was that the NMW was set by the govt. Hence the relevance.

Yes I do. That's why I said upthread that having an NMW that meant people had to have government subsidy is fucked up. It is wrong, it is embarassing and it pisses me off.

I lived on NMW for a long time. It is a NATIONAL minimum wage. Londoners lives are no more important that anyone else's, no matter what they might like to tell themselves.

Methe
I think the problem could end up affecting the rest of the country if productivity drops in London.

"London has reached the point where the cost of housing is affecting productivity growth. We are on the cusp of having to bus in cleaners, retails workers and hospitality staff from the Shires because those on low incomes cannot afford London rents. Londoners on average already spend more than half of their income on paying their rent or mortgage"

Just read this in the new statesman

Are you saying that if a person doesn't clear enough glasses or wipe enough backsides in London then whole economy is going to suffer? Wow! Who knew you guys were that important.. I'm impressed!