to think that the minimum wage should be higher in London

[bottlenecker]

I really do not understand how the national minimum wage can possibly be the same in London as the rest of the country. How on earth can anyone live on that minimum wage?

So true Nigella. I'll be the last family member/friend standing before too long. So many people have left now.

I am getting a bit sick of incomers lecturing me about what I can say about my own city, normally from their perch on top of a small mountain of unearned housing equity.

The place a grew up is to expensive for me too (Expensive area of a northern city). Doesn't mean I should be paid more to live there. I have moved to a cheaper area and aspire to move back one day.

London is a region as well as a city though.

NMW brought up to regional liviing wage levels seems the most sensible way forward. Then people have to choose between living in cheaper or more expensive areas of the region.

(and I am talking about being priced out of the whole region, not my childhood neighbourhood, my borough, or the city)

My OP has nothing to do with Londoners having the right to stay in their home city. It is to do with the fact that London weighting is recognised as necessary for most employees and not for the lowest paid.
It is about the fact that the lowest paid cannot afford to stay and work in the capital even though their services are essential. It is not about them affording a house or gain from a house price bubble.
It is about overcrowding of people living in sheds and leaving in droves.

This is not about Londoners being entitled but about anyone who is working in essential services on minimum wage.

Can someone explain exactly what is more expensive in London than anywhere else in the country, barring the cost of a roof above your head, which I understand as house prices in the capital are so inflated.

Do tesco charge more for a loaf in London? Is gas more expensive and does it cost more to recharge your ipad than any other location?

Why is London seen as being vastly more expensive, when its central and convenient as far as logistics and freighting goes, as to warrant a special wage for people who live there?

Is it just rents and mortgages?

stupid money to rent a four bed house in edinburgh too. this attitude of entitlement and being londoncentric makes me sick. Like no one else has the same problems around the uk?

I don't have money for a deposit on a house I don't feel sorry for myself, I will rent until I'm older and maybe get a small place freehold so I don't have to keep lugging furniture around in old age.

Move out of London if you must have that house. I don't understand why in the uk and usa having ones own home is an absolute must, even if that means you work godsend hours,get into debt and neglect the kids. there's a stigma with renting and a much higher stigma in taking a council home.

Do tesco charge more for a loaf in London?

Yes.

Also more in inner London than outer

But then surely its Tesco should be getting the flaming. It doesn't make sense. Is it even legal? Price fixing?

just ownership is the only way to protect oneself from the blatant profiteering in rents.

Why is being able to stay near one's support networks not important? Even more important on a low income.

Oh and some train companies used to (don't know whether they still do) charge more for a return from London to say Newcastle return than from Newcastle to London return.

Tesco will also pay higher land prices in London.

... So no, it's not price fixing etc.

Oh and insurance. Nearly 40 and my car insurance is still nearly £1k pa, never made a claim. Mainly due to postcode made worse by having no OSP.

Home insurance also high.

Pretty much all forms of socialising costs are more expensive in London.

Babysitting
Transport (cabs or public transport)
Food- eating out, takeaways or even the kebab on the way home
Entry Fees/Tickets
Drinks
Cinema/Bowling/Theatre (smaller local ones rather than West End)/Gigs/Swimming/Gym and Gym Classes

There are lots of free things to do, but the demand usually exceeds the supply, or you don't meet the necessary criteria or there is a lack of choice.

Like for like, if I want to go and see, say Captain America at my local cinema on any night of the week, it will cost me £5-£8 more than cinemas outside of London.

London has been sold as the great cosmopolitan mixing place and many many people from outside the UK have moved there because it's trendy and the in place to be...a consequence of that is that 'Normal' Londoners are being forced out of the middle and are now on the way to being forced out of the outer section of this great mixing pot (Sarcasm).

Now it seems like all there are are rich people being served by poorer people who have to commute to serve them rather than having a base in London themselves.

If you can afford to move to London and not struggle then I suppose it would be a great place to live but realistically only a small section of our society can afford to do so....so the powers that be in the interest of rebranding London as an international city have deposed the pearly Kings and Queens and sent the British people to the provinces whilst the Princes and Sheiks hold court in the capital.

Thank god i'm a northerner born and bred.

Lots of things are more expensive in London, precisely because they are having to pay higher wages. For example, nursery workers in the north are typically starting out at about nmw, whereas in London they are on considerably more. Are you sure 'the market' isn't working?

On the one hand, people are complaining that people need to be paid more, because things cost more, but a big part of this is because of the higher wages. There's a feedback loop going on.

We need to relieve the pressure on London by proper investment outside of it. £16 billion is being invested in crossrail, yet it still takes an hour on the train from Leeds to Manchester, a journey of not much more than 40 miles.

So you think minimum wage work is uncommon in London what?

I get your point having lived in London as a student.

There's only so much money in the pot so to pay Londoners more, they would have to take money from elsewhere- like the north for example. No government is going to want to piss off an entire region though.

It's not uncommon, but is a much lower proportion than outside of London. Figures I found indicated just over 2% of jobs in London at minimum wage, compared to a UK average at just over 4%. Quick search for nursery workers show starting salaries in London about £3k more than nmw (which is what is paid where I am).

Many more earning less than the living wage, which is only £8.80 in London. It isn't much higher than NMW in fact.

And only £7.65 outside of London. Yes there are bad spots in London, just as there are in other areas around the country. It doesn't particularly make the case of London being much worse than anywhere else (and due to the size of London you might expect there to be wider variations between constituencies than a smaller city).

The living wage is 8.80 in London and 7.65 everywhere else. That's far better than the 6.31 you get from nmw. Things are expensive in London for numerous reasons, but in other areas they are disproportionately high too.

Transport where I live is very expensive and the bus into the city centre only runs once an hour and finishes well before stop tap time in the night. For people on nmw doing bar work, they have no other option but to drive and park in a city centre. Petrol can also be expensive in more rural areas and socialising is hardly cheap when you are forced to get a taxi home instead of lots of available convenient transport. Plus Politicians like IDS are intent on telling people from my area how they should get on the bus and find work, without realising how impractical our infrastructure is.

London benefits from many things and i can imagine the uproar if there were broadband not spots in London because its needed for everyone from benefit claimants to CEO's these days. There is a price to pay for the convenience and availability that London has, it's an amazing city. I would imagine that many Londoners would struggle with how difficult and inconvenient life is in areas not as well connected.

Conversely the benefit cap was set at London appropriate rates... so those outside London get a disproportionate allowance. London councils are still seriously looking at moving those lowest on its lists up country, Northern councils are still outraged.

Maybe London should have a lower minimum wage to persuade even more people to move out.

Social engineering - doomed to failure!