to think that the minimum wage should be higher in London

[bottlenecker]

I really do not understand how the national minimum wage can possibly be the same in London as the rest of the country. How on earth can anyone live on that minimum wage?

"LONDON RISING
When the national minimum wage was first introduced, in 1997, many people worried that it would cause unemployment. Yet there is now widespread consensus that there has been little effect on employment levels, whilst the policy has ensured that people who work are fairly rewarded, with correspondingly reduced reliance on benefits. All the main political parties now support the minimum wage – indeed they are examining ways of strengthening it.

Yet, as this ground-breaking report sets out, there is good reason to think that a minimum wage that works for the rest of the country doesn’t work for the capital.

London Rising applies the methodology used to determine the national minimum wage to the London economy. It finds that the distinctive structure of the London economy means that the capital could bear a higher statutory minimum wage than the rest of the country. The report argues that the Low Pay Commission should be required to recommend a London minimum wage in addition to a national one, with the power to set a London rate given to the Mayor."

centreforlondon.org/publication/london-rising/

It would seem research show that minimum wage has little effect on unemployment. It reduces reliance on the state and in many cases forces companies to pay more.

Yes I've not come across any cleaners and nannies willing to work for £6.31 in London. There may be some.

I learned today that the recruitment agency I got my job through gets 7 for every hour I work. So screwed up that a company forwarding a cv gets paid more than somebody working full time and it's public money too!

That is almost unbelievable Soul Is it a v short contract?

Many cleaning agencies charge £14 an hour in London but the cleaner gets minimum wage, well that's if they're legal.

Then they deserve to go out of business if living wage comes in OP. How high can the overheads for a cleanng agency be?

I am not sure fideline but I suppose they have insurance costs, constant recruitment (with wages that low!) office costs.

I agree they should pay a living wage though.

No stock and no need for large premises, though.

Depressing to think about how people manage,

If it wasn't for the fact that millions of lives would be affected with appalling consequences, I sometimes think I'd like to see an end to all state subsidy of wages so that the inevitable consequences would allow the nation to see that the pursuit of profit without constraint is making a mockery of everyone.

Without top-ups and a NMW, we'd see starvation, people leaving urban centres in droves (apart from the slums, which would blossom, of course) and it would all collapse in no short space of time.

Then we might start seeing a return to sensible living costs and a commensurate rise in wages.

Yes it is depressing. Overcrowded bedsits. People paying rent to live in sheds in back gardens. People having no choice but to live further and further away from their work making an extremely long commute after a long shift often on their feet. Unsociable hours, sleeping in train stations until the morning train after work. These are not feckless work shy people but hard working families and the like.

This the reality for many essential workers in London.

Dahlen, you speak a lot of sense but unfortunately I don't think we'd ever see a return to sensible living costs with all the international investment in the city. It's a global issue not local.

I know.

I am quite saddened by some of the immediate responses on this thread. Someone wanting essential workers in London to have at least the same quality of life as essential workers elsewhere in the country does not make them entitled or thinking they're better than anyone.

Jumping to conclusions that because I believe low paid Londoners face more difficultly than most of the rest of the country does not mean I think everyone else has it easy.

There is clearly agreed thought that London workers incur more costs as London weighting has been around for a very long time. It's just a shame that London weighting doesn't help those that need it the most.

Quite a lot of London-bashing goes on in the provinces bottle

We can't afford a proper family home here in London. Constantly considering moving to be near family in Dorset. Knowing that when we do we will have to face down all this 'rich incomer' shit is the main thing putting me off.

I understand Fideline.

I can understand London bashing when it's about bankers bonuses or property prices. But essential minimum wage workers, really?

I can understand arguments against my OP but just getting stroppy and outraged at the suggestion is madness.

'Tis deeply odd.

The problem with regional minimum wage is it would make regional differences worse by continuing to support a London based economy.

The solution to those inequalities is not to exaggerate them but to provide incentives for decentralisation of the economy throughout the country.

Money is therefore far better spent doing this than forcing wages up in the capital.

The problem with essential workers, is an issue for the bodies that employ them, rather than a problem with the minimum wage as such.

"I learned today that the recruitment agency I got my job through gets 7 for every hour I work. So screwed up that a company forwarding a cv gets paid more than somebody working full time and it's public money too!"

Why is that surprising?

If you worked for a consultancy or a lawyers firm they might get £100/hour for every hour you work.

(Point being that just because the minimum wage is there, doesn't mean you can't pay more than that...)

I think this whole thread is misguided.

There is no shortage of labour in London willing to work for low wages. This reflects:

• unlimited immigration from Eastern Europe willing to live in shit conditions sharing houses
• a large long-term workless population that is paid very high marginal rates of pay through tax credits (effectively a low wage subsidy) in order to get them into employment
• a large population with affordable housing perhaps because they bought their house 20 years ago, or because they have a social rent
• at least £1billion in housing benefit being pumped into the London rental market alone

The fact is it is NOT expensive to live in London. Public transport is viable, you can do away with the cost of having a car, food is no more expensive than anywhere else, many leisure activities are free, and so on.

This thread is purely about ONE thing, the fucked up housing market, which is NOT limited to London but extends well beyond its borders.

I'm bewildered as to why people imagine that the solution to a housing bubble is to pump more cash into the economy to blow it up even more.

Because it's an absurd amount of money to pay someone for doing nothing more than putting an advert online and waiting for people to respond.

I understand that for some professions recruitment is more active and specialized and there is some notion of earning a fee but not here.

I'm a contractor so they're not handling payroll or anything else, they put me forward for an interview and no more.

*"The problem with regional minimum wage is it would make regional differences worse by continuing to support a London based economy.

The solution to those inequalities is not to exaggerate them but to provide incentives for decentralisation of the economy throughout the country."*

I understand what you are saying, however, the London economy massively influenced by what is happening in other countries. The UK could incentivise businesses to move to other UK cities and create wealth there but in reality if they were not in London they would likely chose another leading capital city rather than another UK one.

I think the trend over the next 50 years is that global cities are just going to get bigger and bigger.

I disagree with that entirely tbh. Businesses will gravitate to areas of similar business or where there are new opportunities. Given the size of the UK and the ability to travel to/communicate with the rest of world today, I do not see why on earth you need to be in London. Thats old fashioned and narrow minded thinking. This is the biggest issue; businesses are afraid to break from that mindset and don't even consider the potential benefits of moving elsewhere. You can potentially improve productivity by moving to somewhere else for example.

Its difficult to live on nmw wherever you live, it's a very small wage and lets not forget, its more likely to be women affected by low pay, part time hours or occupational segregation.

However if you live in London you are already more likely to earn above nmw than anywhere else in the UK and are more likely to be able to access cheaper transport, council tax and even utilities.

I don't want to see a race to the bottom so fully agree with the living wage and above, but if this was introduced I know it would give Londoners an even bigger wage advantage than it already has.

HNRWT but after over twenty years of living in the capital it has never been more apparent that London is another country altogether. When I first moved here there was a slight disparity between it and other UK cities - as a student it was price of beer, lodging costs being a tenner or so more than elsewhere. But London wasn't completely out of reach for the majority in the way that it is now. Transport, improved though it is, is very bloody expensive. Property? Well. It's another universe entirely. So under these circumstances, yes, London should have a higher minimum wage. Because so many industries flock to the capital and only the capital many people are stuck having to work and live here or face hideous commutes. Until the infrastructure and business culture of the UK changes radically the problem will only get worse. We absolutely need to make sure that key workers, service industry workers and the like have a better wage otherwise the rise of slum rentals and poor but cheap housing will just get worse.