to plan to meet for lunch at a time that fits in with my 18 month old?

[backtotheplanet]

My parents are retired and my sister works for 1 hour a day in the late afternoon and is currently studying part time. They wanted to arrange to meet for lunch in a restaurant where they live which is no problem for me at all. I suggested meeting at 12 so I can get my active 18 month old DS1 settled and started on lunch, in the hope of keeping him occupied and avoiding over hungry and tired meltdowns and this was all agreed.

My Sister called the evening before and asked to if it was possible move the time because 12 is a 'bit early for her' and she has been a bit 'nocturnal' recently (she doesn't have children btw). Unfortunately my explanation of why I had suggested 12 didn't go down well (it was not the immediate agreement was hoping for) and although we could have been a little flexible with the times, I didn't get the chance to work it out. She very quickly lost her temper and in the end she called off the lunch.

This is not the first time my family have expressed mild shock at arriving anywhere this early in the day and I'm finding myself in a difficult position. My son wakes at 7, generally eats around 12 and sleeps around 1:30 -3:30 /4. My family really don't do mornings and its always difficult to find a suitable time to make everyone happy. We can be much more flexible in each others houses but restaurants are one of those places that my son just wants to explore and run around in. He will eat, but not sleep and can do about 30 mins max in the high chair. For other reasons that I won't go into my mum wanted to meet in a restaurant this time.

AIBU to ask my family to meet a bit earlier so that we can eat lunch at a time that fits in with my son? Is 12 really too early?

When I apologized to my mum for the lunch being called off she did say 'well, lunch is usually at 1 o'clock'

I am feeling really disappointed that my family, who don't seem to have any obstacles to getting to the restaurant at 12, other than what time they get up in the day, can't be more understanding.

THUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is me innit! I can't sleep, hence on here at 03.50am but have stumbled across you!!!!

Have been on the Raft recently.

Apologises to OP as of no use to other than locating friends [& also 12 is breakfast to me]

My toddler wakes at 6 regardless of bedtime. Putting him to bed later doesn't result in a lie-in, just a more tired toddler. Afternoons at pre-school wear him out so much that he could not physically stay awake for a long time after picking him up so he has to be in bed by 7ish now anyway.

Also, most parents work and don't get to drop their kids off when school starts, they have to drop them earlier at a childminder/breakfast club/whatever. I have to drop my son off at 7.30 which means leaving the house at 7.15. He has to eat breakfast before getting dressed because he is hungry when he wakes up and doesn't want to wait.

I find it weird that some people express disbelief at a toddler having an inflexible routine yet are themselves completely inflexible on the idea that lunch can be at noon. Those saying 'why can't he eat an hour later than normal as a one-off' - why can't you imagine eating an hour earlier? I really don't have set mealtimes for myself, if someone suggested lunch at 12 I would just have an early breakfast, if they suggested lunch at 2 I would have brunch or a snack around 11. I don't particularly care what time a meal happens or what I call it.

Oh, and before the routine of pre-school started I had a very flexible toddler who would nap in his buggy anywhere so I was very fortunate in never having to plan my social life around his schedule but I was always happy to accommodate people with more rigid routines so I think YANBU, OP, and your mum's comment of 'lunch is normally at 1pm' would fill me with inexplicable rage.

Coruskate I have many friends whose DC seem to have an internal alarm that goes off at 5am. This is regardless of when they go to sleep at night (they've tried varying bedtimes, doesn't work) - but the later they go to bed, the less sleep they'll get and the grouchier they'll be the next day. So, you do what works. The first 2 years are the time when many parents do just do what works to get them through with as little unnecessary drama as possible. I was lucky with DS1; he was late to bed, late to rise (8-8:30 am usually). DS2 is late to bed too but at the moment is going through waking up at ~7am - still way better than 5am but still a little too early for my comfort.

My Ds1 was very flexible, liked restaurants, would sleep in his pushchair etc., BUT he would still get restless if kept hungry and in his pushchair for too long. DS2 is very different and REALLY hates being kept in a pushchair, especially if there are exciting things going on (this includes being with Different People) and he would NOT go to sleep under those circs.

It's one of those things that, I hate to say it, you just don't "get" until you're in the situation. I never did before I had DS1! And, thanks to MN, I realised that I was just lucky with DS1, it was nothing to do with my parenting. Good job, or DS2 would have been a terrible shock!

Whoops, refresh fail!

Wotcher Munning! Rafting soon, promise. :)

Coruskate when I was on maternity leave ds was put to bed around 8-9pm to wake up 12 hors later (usually)

But now he's in nursery a few mornings a week and is woken up at 6:30am that is what he sticks to all week.

The thing about tired toddlers is they don't control themselves at all (can't). So at about 7pm tonight ds will either tureen into a limpet or lie on the floor and scream about not getting his way.

While YANBU - clearly, it is best for everyone if a toddler is not screaming with rage, hunger or exhaustion, even if you were prepared to let him get into that state (which of course you aren't) - it can be frustrating to be on the other end of the situation. I think your sister is BU. However, I have often felt just as unreasonable, even if I don't act on it.

When you don't have children, your wishes often come second, your norms often have to be set aside and your convenience is often sacrificed to the routine of a small child. If you don't like it or feel irritated by the way arrangements are always on someone else's terms - which, frankly, they are if you are close to people with small children and want to continue to spend time with them - your feelings are dismissed as selfish or ridiculous. Some of the comments early on this thread prove that very clearly.

Your sister should fit in with your toddler's needs. You haven't done anything wrong. You are entitled to be annoyed. But she is allowed to feel any way she likes about the situation and her normal routines are not stupid or lazy or something to despise as some seem to do.

I remember getting virtually hysterical when leaving dd as a toddler with my Mum while I worked, "don't let her sleep after 4 or she'll be awake at 10!" "She needs feeding at 12 or the afternoon will be ruined!"

And then suddenly, once or twice it happens. And the sky, strangely, doesn't fall in.

DD's friend's Mum, yesterday, was bemoaning that her youngest was all set for a baaaaaaad week of tantrums because of losing the hour on Sunday. He is 9.

I think, when they are really little, it's reasonable to call the shots on restaurant times etc, but to continue doing so past baby stage is just going to have people rolling their eyes and wondering how long the PFBitis is going to go on.

Obviously, in this case, the OP's sister was U for changing a pre-agreed time because she'd been on the lash, but that doesn't make it right that 4 adults have to eat at 12 for an 18 mth old. (I would also not want to, as my idea of hell in a restaurant is to be in the company, not just of my toddler-relative, but of everyone else's as well.

PS Love the passive-aggressive "those saying YABU have obviously never had a toddler" shit.

Er, no, we have actually. And now we look back and see that, contrary to what we were thinking at the time, our child was centre only to our universe, and not the rest of the world's.

And we were (well, as I said, I know I was) a bit silly with our insistence on certain rigid and inflexible standards.

I can't understand all the '12 is too early to have lunch' cries. Is everyone still in as much of a routine as the toddler? Pick food up, eat it. Not that hard, even if it is 'early'.

YANBU because your sister could easily make the 12pm lunch, she just can't be arsed.

However, I am always a bit baffled by parents whose kids simply have to eat at a certain time otherwise the entire universe will implode (looking at you SIL). If we have been going for lunch or whatever with ds then We have always just planned around the time we are going, so bring snacks, or give him something to eat to keep him going a home, put him down for a sleep slightly early or let him sleep in the buggy or whatever.

i dont know, ds has always been Very easy going so i guess we are just lucky. Unfortunately this does mean that we get instructions barked at us by SIL when we anywhere with them and everything has to fit around her kids, but I prefer that than never being able to go places at certain times.

I sympathise with the DSis. I suspect that the OP gets a lot more attention due to being married and having young children, whereas the single sister is treated as a bit of a loser, who, it is assumed, will fit around the OP. I've been the single childless sister in this kind of scenario, and it's not much fun.

Yanbu, invariably a table at 12 doesn't mean you will eat at 12, in fact when it's a catch up like this your more likely to be further delayed by pleasantries and not order straight away, this not eat until much later... With any child in tow that's going to be hard work for no one but you

So if you agreed to meet at 1pm you wouldn't be eating til closer to 2pm which it would defy anyone yo disagree that this is far to late for a child to have lunch - unless your a sadist

Sod em, go for lunch, say you will be there from 12, see them when they can be assed to turn up

Yanbu, invariably a table at 12 doesn't mean you will eat at 12, in fact when it's a catch up like this your more likely to be further delayed by pleasantries and not order straight away, this not eat until much later... With any child in tow that's going to be hard work for no one but you

So if you agreed to meet at 1pm you wouldn't be eating til closer to 2pm which it would defy anyone yo disagree that this is far to late for a child to have lunch - unless your a sadist

Sod em, go for lunch, say you will be there from 12, see them when they can be assed to turn up

oh I with you op.

to be honest your family sound wierd! what healthy adults don't do mornings, usually retired oldies are up at sparrow fart.

your sis sounds a bit tapped and lazy to boot.

I do remember in the dim past being very specific on my babies routines. yes I know the sky did t fall in if they went hay wire but I though it might at the time and that's where the op is now.

we can all look back and laugh at ourselves but that's because we are looking back

ring your family and tell them 12 noon is lunch time in most infant schools and nurseries for a jolly good reason. kids are usually hungry at 12.

then suggest they need tonics or a doctors visit to counteract this aversion to a large part of the day.

It sounds as if your sister could benefit from a few early nights and regular mealtimes herself if she is prone to such tantrums over small things.

I agree with jellyandcake's point

I find it weird that some people express disbelief at a toddler having an inflexible routine yet are themselves completely inflexible on the idea that lunch can be at noon. Those saying 'why can't he eat an hour later than normal as a one-off' - why can't you imagine eating an hour earlier?

Why is the preference of one small child being given precedence over the preference of 3 adults? We are living in a topsy turvy world in which young children are seen as more important than adults. Many older adults, and single people, react against this. I have 2 DCs, and don't remember ever making plans around their meal or sleep times. Their meals and sleep times happened around whatever I wanted to do. It worked fine, and they are extremely adaptable older children now.

I am quite amused by the adults who seem to think that getting up to be somewhere for 12 is some dreadful hardship. Or that the difference between eating at 12 or eating at 1 is somehow profound (or that 12 isn't 'lunchtime').

It's not like the OP suggested they all arrive for 6.30am prompt and that they should all be up for a huge roast dinner at that time.

I am always a bit baffled by parents whose kids simply have to eat at a certain time otherwise the entire universe will implode

While eating at a certain time can often be staved off by snacks (though sometimes the journey to the eating is too long for that), it's a lot harder to stave off tiredness and meltdown, particularly for the older toddler who won't nap in a buggy. So it's all very well to say "just have lunch at 1, give them a large snack at 11.30", but if that means delaying their nap (which is normally a tradeoff between nearly falling asleep in the high chair and actually getting some food down them before 12.15 when they do that), then you are just going to have screaming between 12.00 and adult lunchtime, followed by absolutely no lunch eaten because they are too tired, followed by a brief, useless nap because they are too hungry.

I do work round other people's timetables, and if a friend suggests coffee at 11, I am getting into the habit of ordering coffee and scone for me but sandwich for DS at 11.30, even though none of the adults want lunch till 1; and I will get him up from his nap to meet a friend at 3 if that's the only time they can meet, but there are still times when it's impractical to be out and about, unfortunately.

Dinosaurs but this is an early lunch, it isn't a major world event. If the OP had said she was forcing herbsustervto move her wedding to 12 noon for a toddler you might be justified in saying "we are living in a topsy turvy world where young children are seen as more important than adults etc." But it's being an hour early for a family lunch, presumably part of the point of which is to see said toddler?

So the OP's sister has had a hissy fit and cancelled a family event for several people the night before because of a one hour difference in start time and it's the toddler who's a problem, not the tantrummy sister who is an adult and perfectly able to adjust her "routine" to accommodate the needs of a tiny child, but just doesn't want to? The 18mo sounds positively mature in comparison.

And OP your mum's comment about 1pm would have filled me with rage too.

*her sister to not herbsustervto - bloody autocorrect

I don't think 12 is early for lunch. It is when I eat my lunch and I don't have young children. But then, I do work for a living, so I am not lolling in bed all morning.

Surely most normal, productive adults will have done a mornings work (out of the home or with young children) and be more than ready to eat by mid day? And retired elderly people may not be working, but are often the earliest risers of all.

OP - your family sound odd to me - we would happily eat at 12 noon because that is, y'know, lunchtime. Your suggestion was not odd, unreasonable, inflexible or off the wall. It was utterly, utterly normal.

So if you agreed to meet at 1pm you wouldn't be eating til closer to 2pm which it would defy anyone yo disagree that this is far to late for a child to have lunch - unless your a sadist

Wow, I must be a massive sadist then, ds has had lunch at 2pm on more than one occasion!

Don't get me wrong, we do normally have a routine - ds doesn't just get food chucked at him at our own whims on a daily basis. But I really don't think it's the end of the world if that routine goes out the window sometimes - as I said though I think we are quite lucky with ds.

As others have said however, if we expect toddlers to change routines then we can definitely expect adults to do the same so your family are being unreasonable in this instance not to just suck up lunch at 12pm. When did people become so precious about eating times?!

Just feed the toddler at 12, a sandwich will do, then eat with the adults later.

Or are you one of those slightly obsessive "we must eat every meal as a family" people? In which case, let him join the table for a bit more for at 1 or 2. Then have a nice calm lunch with the adults while he naps.

There are 2 ways of living:

• fit your entire life (and others' lives) around the baby
• let your baby fit in with your life