to plan to meet for lunch at a time that fits in with my 18 month old?

[backtotheplanet]

My parents are retired and my sister works for 1 hour a day in the late afternoon and is currently studying part time. They wanted to arrange to meet for lunch in a restaurant where they live which is no problem for me at all. I suggested meeting at 12 so I can get my active 18 month old DS1 settled and started on lunch, in the hope of keeping him occupied and avoiding over hungry and tired meltdowns and this was all agreed.

My Sister called the evening before and asked to if it was possible move the time because 12 is a 'bit early for her' and she has been a bit 'nocturnal' recently (she doesn't have children btw). Unfortunately my explanation of why I had suggested 12 didn't go down well (it was not the immediate agreement was hoping for) and although we could have been a little flexible with the times, I didn't get the chance to work it out. She very quickly lost her temper and in the end she called off the lunch.

This is not the first time my family have expressed mild shock at arriving anywhere this early in the day and I'm finding myself in a difficult position. My son wakes at 7, generally eats around 12 and sleeps around 1:30 -3:30 /4. My family really don't do mornings and its always difficult to find a suitable time to make everyone happy. We can be much more flexible in each others houses but restaurants are one of those places that my son just wants to explore and run around in. He will eat, but not sleep and can do about 30 mins max in the high chair. For other reasons that I won't go into my mum wanted to meet in a restaurant this time.

AIBU to ask my family to meet a bit earlier so that we can eat lunch at a time that fits in with my son? Is 12 really too early?

When I apologized to my mum for the lunch being called off she did say 'well, lunch is usually at 1 o'clock'

I am feeling really disappointed that my family, who don't seem to have any obstacles to getting to the restaurant at 12, other than what time they get up in the day, can't be more understanding.

I've had a similar argument with my parents about eating dinner at the pub. My stepdad tried to insist that five children (age 3-11) would all wait till 6.30 to eat because that was when he wanted to eat.

We told him we'd be there at 5pm, we'd aim to eat around 5.30, and if we were still there at 6.30 it would be nice to see him.

He changed his mind and turned up at 5.15.

Damn! Wish I'd thought of teaching DS to be flexible. My fault he is hateful without an afternoon nap & won't nap in his buggy.

OP YANBU. If you met at 12.30 chances are that the fiord wouldn't arrive until 1 anyway so nobody would be eating ridiculously early, not that 12 is that early

*food!

Yes but you did say Professor that you 'taught' your DS to be flexible so that implies that those of us who do not have flexible toddlers just aren't bothering to teach our children how to behave - which is clearly not the case for most of us. Kids just have different personalities. As they get older, yes, you can start training them and expecting better behavior but at 18 months you have to adapt to them - unless you like being screamed at and mortified in public.

For example, as I said, our DS was one of those easy babies that you could take to a restaurant and have sleep in his stroller up until about 9 months. My friend, on the other hand, had a colicky baby who howled and cried all the time and barely ever napped, especially not in a stroller, right up until 1 year old. Even now her 3 year old is still very fidgety and restless. It's just her personality. She looked at me like I was insane when I talked about taking my DS out to nice restaurants and having him snooze next to us. In fact, she almost looked like she was going to cry as in 'What? Really?? Some babies do that??' like it had just dawned on her that she was going through some kind of unique hell.

I most certainly did not tell her smugly that I just taught my DS good behavior and was proud of what a relaxed, happy baby he was. That would have been mean. I was actually embarrassed because I hadn't realized at that point how lucky we were with DS's temperament. I did soon learn my lesson once he got old enough to have moods and ideas of his own, however!

If sharing the things i did to achieve that makes me smug, then so be it.

No, it's the assumption that as they worked for you they must work for others.

Not always the case, sadly.

I find it interesting that the whole thing about toddler routines is so heavily emphasised in this country, when it just doesn't seem to be an issue in some other cultures.

I have never understood why some parents seem to be slaves to their DCs' routines. DD was always very flexible, but I can't say if that's because we never bothered about schedules or whether that was why we never bothered. What I will say is that I chucked out the Gina Ford book on my second day of parenting, because it didn't strike me as the way to live! Other friends who swore by it tended to adhere much more closely to their routines as their kids grew up. I am not saying that either way is better, but I'm less than convinced that it's all down to the child's temperament - though that may play a role as well.

As for the OP, I think yanbu. 12 would be a little early for me - not so bad for a quick sandwich at my desk, but different for a restaurant meal that I'd want to savour and enjoy - but I'd go along with it if it was easier for others in the family. Besides, the time had already been agreed, so your sister should have accepted it with good grace when you said you didn't want to change it.

Because babies/toddlers tend to go to bed early in the evening so they wake up early say at 6/7am. They are hungry so eat more or less straight away. Eating lunch at around 12-12:30 then dinner at 5:30pm is around 5+ hours in between meals. Which is the same as you are suggesting it's just that your start time is later.
As children grow older they start to go to bed later meaning they get up later, eat later and so on.

You may feel differently about eating lunch at 12 if you have a child because there will be oh so many mornings where you and they will have been awake since 5am or 6am, 7am if you are lucky and you will be hungry by 12 too

Agree with lego - I'm a late riser myself, but surely 12 is a perfectly normal time to eat lunch? Especially in a restaurant where the adult food won't arrive for a while? My work canteen starts lunch at 12:15; all school lunchtimes are 12-1 IIRC. Flabbergasted that so many people on this thread think the idea of adults being flexible about their lunchtime routine is not on but expect an 18mo to be flexible as if it's some kind of moral duty of toddlers not to disturb adults' routines.... It's ridiculous that the OP's parents and sister can't make a restaurant at noon for a starter and a pre-dinner drink.

Obviously you take a tiny child's needs into account - they simply don't have the physiological and mental capacity to adapt themselves to adult social norms. And I haven't seen many 18mo toddlers napping in a buggy in a restaurant - 6mo maybe but walking toddlers? (My nephew does, but then he can sleep anywhere - my DD @ 14mo has never napped in any buggy and I wouldn't fancy my chances at getting her to start now )

I had a similar situation yesterday when out for mothers' day - delays meant we got lunch later than planned and then were late getting home and DD was far too excited at being out and wouldn't nap at all - she finally dropped off around 4pm for half an hour but then was up until midnight crying for hours and overtired - there was nothing that would settle her. She normally eats at 12 and naps 12:30/1-2pm ish, and though we are often flexible because we can't always stick to her usual time, we all pay for it later on on those days and the next day too - really not good if I'm in work the next day. If the minor sacrifice of a slightly early lunch might help, I can't imagine why a bunch of grown adults can't be accommodating.

CorusKate most schools are in a lot earlier than 9, so if you want to get there on time they need to eat breakfast a lot earlier than 8....equally school lunchtimes are normally 12-1 right to end of 6th form IIRC! My work kitchen serves breakfast 7-9 and lunch 12:15-1:30, so I don't think it's that unusual to have early mealtimes.

Oh and weirdly my toddler doesn't get up that early - about 8am - but she still seems to need lunch and a nap at midday anyway. Not sure why!

They are not set an hour early Curuskate babies need more sleep than adults therefore they go to sleep earlier in the evening. This means they had there last meal (if they are toddlers not babies) around 10 hours ago so they wake up early because they are hungry.

You could try and keep a baby awake until 11pm in the hope they would sleep later but it would be a horrible experience as a tired baby is a nightmare plus they will still probably wake up at their usual time.

Would people really be that confused? Even without/pre-children I'd think it was normal for, say, a weekend lunch with friends or family to start at 12-12:30 for a drink / catch up / starter? And I used to be a night owl and wouldn't be up until 10-11 at the weekends....

Schools start at 8:30 near me - prob takes 20-30 mins to get to school for most people, longer at secondary as fewer secondaries in the area, and lots of people commute in from local villages to town schools in heavy morning traffic.

My school took registers at 8:45 and it was a 30 min drive in the morning (45 min by bus) so I remember a lot of grumpy mornings with my dad shouting at us all to get in the car as 8:15 approached....

Why couldn't they all lie in bed until eleven then eat their breakfast at the restaurant at lunch time?

I sometimes have my lunch at eleven. Then I have my second lunch about half two.

With children it is not a simple case of mathematics CurusKate it is difficult to explain I suppose but I will try.

Most toddlers will start to become tired around the 18:30-19:30 mark depending on how active a day they have had and how long of a nap they have had. This is generally not programmed in to them it is a natural fatigue.
You can try and keep the them awake but a tired toddler as I said is a nightmare and can drive you to the brink. So if they go to bed at 19:00 then wake up at 7am then really it is 12 hours since their last meal (supper). It is fatigue that takes over the hunger so when in a deep sleep their hunger is kept at bay, after 10/12 hours sleep they have had enough so then they start to wake as the hunger kicks in.

Your right though it is a sleep phase but not one that parents generally control (same as teenagers) and it changes every year older they get.

YANBU! When ds was a baby I had a strict rule I called "I never disturb the sanctity of the nap".

I'm willing to bet there is a lot more to this story. Perhaps all meals for the last eighteen months have been catered for around the child and the sister has just got a bit fed up. Or perhaps her mother has been spending a lot of time around the new grandchild and spending less with her. Or OP is being a bit pfb and this was the straw that broke the camels back. I'm just willing to bet this is about more than sleeping in for an extra hour.

I would be annoyed with your mother because she should know from past experience how much harder it is to parent a cranky, tired child. My schedule at weekends is dictated by my children. DS who is 14 months sleeps from 9-11 and wakes hungry. DD who will be 3 in July has her lunch at 11 and then passes out until 2pm. If people want to have lunch with me they either need to meet me somewhere mid week during my lunch break or visit me at home. When their schedule changes so will my calendar.

Also, I would have offered to host at a later time that is mid nap. I do this a lot with my friends who don't have children. It works quite well.