To absolutely fucking hate...

[MinnieMouse5678]

...kids that squeal at the top of their voices for absolutely no reason than wanting attention!

And also their parents for not making them shut the hell up!

Im not talking babies or even toddlers, but young children just bloody squealing! Argh!!!!!!

Grr I'd slap them for you.

No love for those people.

I'm truly humbled by that, Pagwatch.

I didn't post back yesterday because what I've learned is that it's one thing to type a post without really thinking about it on AIBU, but I'm not going to do that here on this thread because it matters.

I wanted to post about something that happened this morning. The telling-of-the-tale pinpoints for me something that I was thinking about yesterday but couldn't articulate. Anyway, I've mentioned that I have contact with children with SN and I was at a supermarket this morning with a friend and her 8-year old son (I'll call him Ben) and her 3 month baby daughter. Ben has learning disabilities. I'm not too sure of the extent but he sometimes has a tendency to be very earnest and loud and struggles to focus when he's feeling stressed or out of his comfort zone. Sometimes he's happy to be out and about, other times not so much. He doesn't like people getting to close to him or looking at him.

I'm ashamed to say that what I've always done with Ben (who I truly love) is take his disabilities, translate them into a 'do's and don'ts' checklist and basically leave his mum to 'steer' me. In the supermarket, Ben wanted to get involved in picking things off the shelves and was singing to himself and trying to get away from his mum's hands. She was busy with the baby, I was pushing the trolley and thought he might like to push it for a bit; he did. Then he was bored and a bit overwhelmed and started to cry and shake and laid on the floor. I noticed immediately that people created a wide berth from us, they really felt uncomfortable and I made a point of looking at them to see what their glances 'said'. It was a mixture of embarrassment, shock(?), and irritation - manifested in outwardly ignoring him. If I hadn't been on this thread, I would never have bothered to look at the people around us... but it's true, from just a few seconds, people go from outward acceptance to 'backing away'.

Ben was still crying and wouldn't get up so I got on the floor with him and laid next to him (I must have looked all kinds of silly) and he was shouting, "You're looking at me, Auntie Lying". I poked him in the tummy and said "That's because you're so beautiful, Ben, I can't help it..." and he actually started laughing as well.

I would never, EVER have done this... I never, ever HAVE done this, interacted with Ben in this way. Reading the posts yesterday gave me a bit of confidence to do this with a child I know and love. It's weird because even though I know Ben, I would still have been quite 'stiff' in my dealings with him, trying so hard not to upset him - or my friend. We went off to the café and he came to sit on my knee. I found it very hard not to cry myself as I hugged him because he's really never been one for cuddles from 'strangers'. I was thinking of the posters on this thread and thought that I must tell you.

What is it about people that makes them 'look the other way' and fail to interact with other humans? I don't know but, if I was guilty of not doing this with my friend's child for fear of upsetting him, then maybe it's not that people don't/won't accept children with SN, but more that they don't know how and wouldn't take that chance with a stranger's child? I was annoyed for my friend when others in the supermarket treated her and her children as 'invisible'... and thought, "Yep, that's me too, I've done that" and it really made me ashamed. I'd like to think that it's just that 'we' don't know how to interact with people with additional needs but I do know that there's no excuse for raised eyebrows and tuts; I'd never even noticed those.

I'm going to do better.

Lovely post..am glad Ben was happy and that you got to see that awful ignoring expression people get like our kids are subhuman. Well it's sad you hd to see it but always good if someone "gets it"

Oh my goodness Lying - what an amazing post !
You are rather fab

That is a lovely post to read, Lying.

Funnily enough this thread popped into my head this morning. We were walking to the bus stop for dds to catch bus to school,at about 8.20, we have to walk down a lane with houses either side, and ds was in full, arched back, screaming like a banshee meltdown mode. Of the various people that walked past there were 3 looks of sympathy/pity, 2 tuts, 2 look the other ways and 1 person coming out of her front door in her dressing gown to see 'what the bloody hell is going on!!'

I was very grateful for the looks of sympathy, and ignored the rest!

I feel all emotional reading your post Lying. I agree with the others - you are a very special person to make so much effort to understand. And you will have made a big impression on Ben (and his mum too) :)

Ooh Lyingwitchinthewardrobe [slightly bleary eyed from welling up a bit]

You are a very big-hearted and forgiving bunch of vipers ladies.

I'm trying, really doing my best to put myself in other peoples' shoes and I know I have barely scratched the surface of understanding what it actually means to have additional needs, to have a child with special needs - and find that - according to my friend - you're treated as if you're some kind of 'alien'. That makes me so sad and that really hadn't penetrated my comprehension.

I've known Ben for five years and always thought that I was doing 'ok' with him. I've realised that actually, I've been deluding myself. This is backed up by his mum, my friend. I told her about this thread and she said to me, "Look here, Lying, you're my friend and I love you BUT you really do live in some kind of sanitised bubble... we go out together and you're kind and loving to the kids - but completely and utterly 'hands off'. If you can't stomach a bit of constructive criticism when you do something 'not quite right' with Ben then you're not the woman I think you are. Ben loves you, we all love you - and it's bloody obvious that you love us all and especially Ben.

She went on to say (and I've bolded it because it really hit me hard)... *He's a child, a little boy, and he has needs that are different, that's all. I won't judge you when you do stuff wrong with him but I'll correct you, and I know you'd want me to. He's a child and nobody's grading you but FGS Lying, stop treating him like some kind of corporate KPI requiring a 'perfect score' because you're missing out on so much that you could be doing with Ben for fear of 'doing it wrong' - and he's missing out on doing these things with you".

I was shocked at her outburst but so grateful to her for putting me straight and I wish she'd felt able to tell me how she felt ages ago. She said all of that in one breath and was shaking when she'd finished, really quite upset. I'm going to step up and put myself out there, be more in Ben's life and see if I can make a positive impact for him.

I can't tell you what it means to me that you've patiently explained and corrected me and I can imagine that it must be painful - and difficult - to have to keep on doing that, again and again. I've copied this thread and am going to keep re-reading it because I asked what I can do to help and there have been many suggestions made. Some of them had never occurred to me yet they're really obvious; that's quite shocking.

I've had my viewpoint changed forever once before because of a thread on MN and this thread now makes it twice. I know it's not enough for me to think differently, I have to 'live it' too. From this point forward, I'm going to actively promote disability rights and wherever I get the opportunity, help lobby for the support and assistance that's needed because it so clearly is and what's being done so far is not enough, it just isn't. Day to day, I'm going to challenge people that 'tut' and abuse - and I'm going to notice when it's happening. I might not be able to stop them but I can make those parents maybe feel not quite so ignored and alone.

Thank you to every single poster on the thread.

Lying, thank you SO much!

We really can be a bunch of vipers. Because at least for me, I start out defensive and swipe anyone who comes near with the attitude 'Given you're not approaching to help me, bugger off' because it is learned behaviour based on experience and how to protect my family.

I can cope with most things with my family, some can't for whatever reason, but I can. What I can't cope with is the added complexity of other people, their expectations and their judgements because on top of an already difficult situation it is too much.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that if you were genuinely trying to help me one day, - And I was too caught up in my issue to process the difference between you and Katie Hopkins, and respond unfairly, please don't take offense and don't be put off trying again with either me at another time or someone else.

And you know what else. For your friend to be able to say to you everything she did, she truly does love you!!

RaRa... I won't take offense, I will smile and you will know that it's fine and I'll try again another time.

It was MistressCeeDee who made that point earlier in the thread... she said that somebody snapped at her and she made the split second decision to smile and be sympathetic and the situation was instantly turned around. That's what I'm going to do too.

PolterGoose you're very kind. Little acorns indeed; takes time.