To expect a 20 year old to pay towards the holiday?

[MrsRGervais]

Dh and I are looking at a holiday abroad next year. It will cost a fortune as the holiday is to incorporate 4 adults and 2 children. The adults are his ds's aged 18 and 20. Now the 18 year old has special needs so can't really earn money so fair enough but Aibu to expect the 20 year old to put something towards the cost?? I really begrudge paying plane and accommodation costs for him when he's an adult and we're struggling to afford it. He's unlikely to take any spending money either as every time we've taken them somewhere he's not brought a penny with him (yet is bragging on Facebook about spending over £100 on lord of the rings memorabilia!)
DH will do doubt hit the roof at the suggestion of not paying 100% of the cost of his eldest but Aibu to suggest that he contributes? I'd certainly ask for a contribution from my own son once he was 18.

whatever, you characterise a (fairly common, if not the majority) view on shared finances as "controlling." Others would characterise your's as disrespectful and entirely selfish. But maybe we could both try to disagree without resorting to snark, what do you say?

If I was married to someone with that controlling attitude, I would keep our finances separate.

I wouldn't be married to somebody who is controlling, so there would be no need to keep my finances separate. I also wouldn't be married to somebody who disregards our discussions and does whatever he wants with our money. Respect for each other's views isn't a synonym for controlling.

I also wouldn't be married to somebody who disregards our discussions and does whatever he wants with our money. Respect for each other's views isn't a synonym for controlling.

Respecting each other views obviously isn't controlling but I think expecting someone to never buy something unless you agree with it is. I would want to keep our finances separate if I was married to someone who expected that.
DH and I discuss large purchases and take each others opinions into account but we don't ask each other for permission. We haven't had an argument about spending in the 22 years we have been together so you're not going to convince me that we should do things differently.

I wouldn't be married to someone who regarded my kids as "luxury items" even when they are over 18. My kids are very important to me and I would never want them to feel unwanted and would value the fact that they still wanted to spend time with me on holiday.
I may give them a kick up the bum if I thought they were being idle, but that wouldn't stop me wanting to spend time with them on holiday.

"rebecca, no one has said that the kids are luxury items. A holiday is a luxury item.

Respecting each other views obviously isn't controlling but I think expecting someone to never buy something unless you agree with it is.

I agree with that, but couples in relationships where they respect each other's views and desires would reach a compromise rather than just saying 'no'. The person saying 'no' would give their reasons and then they would have a civilised discussion.
The OP has suggested that her stepson contributes towards the cost as they are struggling to afford the entire cost themselves. Given that she has her reasons for this; the step son can afford £60 for computer games and is not making any effort to better his situation because he has regular handouts from his parents, I think she has good reason to want him to contribute. The husband however doesn't agree and thinks that they should meet the entire cost. Surely they should be able to reach a compromise and agree what is a reasonable sum for the 20 year old to pay or whether he should bring his own spending money etc.
I wouldn't expect my husband to go and spend £1000 on a new stereo if we had discussed it and I had asked him not to, because we either don't need or afford it. I might suggest a cheaper stereo. I might suggest saving up for a while longer. I might suggest selling something that we don't need to help towards the required £1000. I don't see how that is me controlling him. I see that as reasonable discussion and compromise and I would expect the same reaction if I wanted to buy a pair of boots for £300 and we didn't have enough money.

No I don't think they should pay however if they wanted to bring someone they they would need to pay for themselfs and I think expecting him to pay for his own spending money Is fine and getting his own holiday bits

Impatientismymiddlename That is not what brdgrl or you said originally. Brdgrl said “If one of them vetos a completely optional luxury purchase, I'd actually say that was good enough!”. You agreed with that which seemed to suggest that you think your DH/DP should only buy something if you agree with it.

I think everyone agrees that the OPs DSD should bring his own spending money.

If I disagree completely then my husband shouldn't go ahead and purchase something. But I wouldn't disagree without good reason because I am not a controlling person. If I disagreed with a big purchase and he went ahead then yes it would cause an almighty row. However, my husband is sensible and has a lot of respect for me and knows that I am not unreasonable and he wouldn't go ahead and purchase something expensive that I didn't agree with - because he knows that I wouldn't be disagreeing without good reason. I don't see what is difficult about that to understand.
The OP has good reason to expect her step son to contribute. They are struggling to pay the full cost of the holiday and her step son is lazing away his days doing nothing except playing on expensive computer games that he has purchased. Her husband should listen to her reasons for expecting his son to contribute and take those reasons seriously and then they should mutually agree on the level of contribution expected. It's called Compromise!

"If I disagree completely then my husband shouldn't go ahead and purchase something. But I wouldn't disagree without good reason because I am not a controlling person."

Whether or not your reason is good for refusing a purchase would probably be a matter of opinion though. Taking someones opinion into account is one thing and obviously everyone should do that. However, I don't agree that someone should not being "allowed" to buy something unless the other person has effectively given permission. I think that is controlling and I wouldn't share finances with someone if they had attitude.

Anyway, I think we are going around in circles now so we will just have to agree to disagree.

It wouldn't even occur to me to ask my 20 year old DS to pay to accompany us on holiday. Granted, he is still a student but will be there because we want him to come with us. If we asked him to pay, then he just wouldn't come.

I'm 22 when my dm and dsd took on is holiday when I was 20 with my dp (then 25) and sister then (25) and our dc they paid for us all to go to tenerife.
The following year I was 21 dp 26 sister 26 my dad and step mum took us to Spain and they paid for the villa and meals out for 8 nights but be paid for our flights which for fair as our step sister and partner came along to.
We are going the same again this year we pay for flights they pay for accommodation which we are grateful for as our son has Sn so I can no longer work due to his needs.

Impatient you said

"If I disagree completely then my husband shouldn't go ahead and purchase something. But I wouldn't disagree without good reason because I am not a controlling person."

That is giving you the final say. How do you determine what is a "good reason"

I just can't imagine a 20 year old wanting to go on holiday with their parents. I would not be taking or paying for my adult children to go on holiday. I was told at 16 i was no longer invited to go with my parents. When i was 18 they went to Egypt and i asked if i could join them and they said yes, if i paid for myself. Which i did.

I am a total bastard by MN standards tho

That is giving you the final say.
Yup. If I want to spend our money on a sizable luxury item, and my DH thinks it is not a good use of our money, then he gets to veto the purchase. And vice versa.

The default position regarding large purchases is that we don't make them. A convincing argument would have to be made for the spend.
This is the way most institutions, governments, and partnerships operate with regards to budget - expenditures are approved, not disapproved - it is hardly some bizarre 'out-there' idea.

Obviously, different couples will have different ideas about what constitutes a "large" purchase, and even what constitutes a "luxury", based in large part on their income. But most people know what it is in their relationship. And I daresay it is how most people in the real world have to live. Most of us don't have an unlimited pool of money.

brdgrl you say "our money" You and your partner have no money of your own to spend as you please? That sounds grim.

Sorry brdgrl that last post is a bit rude and isn't what I meant. Presumably out of the joint pot there must be spending money for each for everyday needs like lunch , if one partner saves their spending money presumably he or she can spend it however they like, even if the other disapproves?

if one partner saves their spending money presumably he or she can spend it however they like, even if the other disapproves?

Caitlin, I agree with that, and did say so earlier.
if ...they have agreed that the 'leftover' money is each of their's to spend as they please, and DH then wants to subsidise his adult child through his own 'spending money', I agree that would be his choice. On the other hand, the OP says "we're struggling to afford it", so that suggests to me that they are jointly paying for the holiday, with the costs impacting the entire household...Either way, I still think that the OP would be entitled to an equal opinion about who came on the holiday, but at least the financial aspect would be clearer.

It is where it comes from household finances that I think there needs to be agreement. If the OP were making a non-financial argument about the holiday - for instance if she didn't want SS to come because he was horrid to the children, or if she thought he simply didn't deserve a holiday as he was a lazy sod - she might still have a very good case, but it would be a different post. She states that money is an issue in her OP, and uses the words "we are struggling..."

MrsKoala - I totally agree with you, what self-respecting 20 year old would want to go on holiday with their parents - and surely most parents look forward to child-free holidays at some point in their lives - I know I do but clearly I am also odd by Mumsnet standards. .

Years ago I did go on holiday in my early 20s with my then boyfriend and his family, we only went because it was a 'free' trip and spent most of the time in bed - looking back it must have been horrendous for the parents but I wonder why on earth they invited us. . They were typical of the type of parents who couldn't cut the apron strings; thinking it was 'cool' to invite their grown up children and partners on holiday; foolishly I went on to marry the boyfriend but the marriage only lasted two years (in some ways due to the interfering parents ).

I gave up family holidays at 14 couldn't wait.

That is giving you the final say. How do you determine what is a "good reason"

A good reason could be either of the following:
We can't afford it and buying it will leave us in financial difficulty.
We already have a perfectly good one and it isn't something that we need two of.
We have no space to put it.
It would be more wise to save up and get a better version as 'you buy cheap, you buy twice'.

I would never just outright veto a purchase and my husband would never just outright veto a purchase that I wanted to make. We would, however, discuss the purchase like responsible adults and reach an agreement on whether to make a big purchase or not, whether we need to wait a while and whether we need to sell the current version to make space / raise cash first.
Going behind the other persons back and buying an expensive item that you don't agree on, with joint money, is disrespectful.

rogwort but they are not little children though they are grown ups who happen to be on holiday with us if they want to go then thats fine if not that is fine too my 20yr old is very self respecting woman who happens to be going on holiday with us infact the whole extended family are going its fine

ragwort- I totally agree with you, what self-respecting 20 year old would want to go on holiday with their parents

Well as I said before it depends on the holiday and how close you are as a family as well as finances.

I said in an earlier post I am more than happy to take my lad for two weeks skiing in the Catskills in America and two weeks mountain biking in Jasper, Canada next year. He would never afford to do these things without us just yet. I will still have enough time to have a holiday with DH without the kids and a holiday with my friends.

As I said I am more than wiling because his wage of £125 doesn't go very far when he is saving long term and also buying little by little a tool kit for when he finishes his apprenticeship.

( I don't charge him board either which is apparently bad by MN standards as wee)

I think loads of 20 yr olds still go on holiday with their parents. I've seen quite a few students today who are going away at Easter with their parents. They're going to Las Vegas/ ski-ing in the Alps/ the Caribbean . . . Of course they want to go.

(A lot of them seem actually to want to spend time with their parents as well! They do miss them when they're away at university.)

I went on a holiday as a 20 year old with my parents and grandparent. I did it partly because I knew my very elderly grandparent really wanted me to come. If I had had to pay, I wouldn't have gone.