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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that we are in a new Victorian era of exploitation by the rich of everyone else

167 replies

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 00:56

And with full government support.

Examples:

Who benefits? Not the 7 or more people living in one of the shittiest, crime-ridden cesspits in Europe that is Slough, the owner of the house who boasts 'A Fantastic 14% Yield (Which bank will give you that for your money?) '

14% yield on farming poor people. My bank (fully government bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds of taxpayer cash) gives me 0.5% on my savings.

  • Indentured immigrant labour - business owners don't want to pay people a wage sufficient to have the basic living standards that campaigners fought from the early years of this century onwards to guarantee to every full-time worker. Minimum wage cannot possibly support a family in large areas of the country.

So business owners campaign for unlimited immigration, because otherwise there aren't enough people desperate enough to take their sub-poverty line pay: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/let-more-immigrants-into-uk-because-brits-wont-take-our-jobs-says-dominos-pizza-boss-8992388.html

Australian billionaire Rupert Murdoch's rag The Sun ran a large feature on how worthless and lazy British workers are, on Friday, because there aren't enough of them (in Murdoch's view) willing to work for sub-poverty line wages: twitter.com/StigAbell/status/444802994891423744

  • Low pay subsidies - business owners don't want to pay a sufficient wage, so the government subsidises them in this with tax credits, paid to workers who would otherwise be unwilling to work for poverty-level wages.

  • The great property scam - house prices are beyond all records in terms of income multiples, affordability in terms of wages vs. mortgage payments. This impoverishes everyone in society except for the oldest (who bought their homes for nothing years ago), and who, by no coincidence whatsoever, are most likely to vote, and wealthy landowners (who own more property than they need, and therefore can sell it off at inflated prices to serfs), as ever larger debt repayments are made to banks and to the largest landowners.

Gidiot announced today that the taxpayer will underwrite house builders (big donors to his party) to sell off their shitty newbuild houses at ludicrous debt slave valuations until at least 2020: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26611163

Politicians of all parties support all aspects of this.

We had a post-war 'consensus' between the two major parties. Those who were born with everything would pay higher taxes in order to give opportunity to those born with nothing.

This consensus was smashed by Thatcher, who claimed to represent the little man, selling Sid a couple of hundred British Gas shares, and his council house, but also shutting down any industry that didn't turn a profit every year.

The men of Merthyr Tydfil, once employed in their thousands by the town's coal and steel mills were put out to pasture in the 1980s, with vast numbers never working again, moved onto a diet of anti-depressants and incapacity benefits (news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4217648.stm) by a government that did not care to acknowledge the true scale of unemployment, as it sought to 'restructure' the country from one where most people were paid decent wages for their labour to one based on financial services, where the productive worker is nothing more than a cost centre, to be screwed into the ground, outsourced to India or, more recently, replaced with low-paid foreign labour.

It took Fettes-and-St-John's-Oxford-educated Blair to entrench this Thatcherite consensus permanently. He opened the doors to unlimited low-paid labour from Europe, and introduced the 'zero-hour contract'. He loaded up his 'portfolio' with dozens of 'investment properties', which his policies drove through the roof.

He consorted with crooks, floating around the Mediterranean with rich men whose only moral compass was to be found steering their 150-foot yachts.

He encouraged them to bring their capital, acquired under circumstances that are best not examined, to London, where it could be parked, subject only to the lightest of taxation, in buildings built by their spiritual predecessors, the pre-20th century land-owners, who acquired their wealth by Act of Parliament or royal whim, seizing it from those whose families had worked it for centuries.

His successor, Gordon Brown, formalised these men's tax-free residency, the so-called 'non-dom' status, with the payment of a nominal fee, which made legal and permanent the avoidance of millions of pounds in taxes.

Blair & his cronies were finally were replaced in 2010 by the new Conservative Party, remoulded in Blair's image and, to a man, from backgrounds of extraordinary privilege. Unlike their 20th century political aristocratic antecedents, the likes of Lord Douglas-Home, who might also come from aristocratic backgrounds, the sense that the Lord had some sort of paternal duty towards his men, had long since been abandoned, prey to the forces of 'greed is good' and globalisation.

The new government set out to redouble its predecessor's efforts in support of exploitation, offering business unpaid labour in the shape of 'Workfare', an initiative originating from a man, who unlike 'Sunman' trying out minimum-wage labour while earning a £150k/year salary, had no financial need to perform a day's work in his entire life, a man who claimed that people ENJOYED paying 40% tax, because it made them feel wealthy. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581860/Osborne-People-paying-40p-tax-feel-joining-aspirational-classes-success-Tory-MPs-accuse-Chancellor-insulting-middle-earners.htm Never mind that such earnings are insufficient to buy a small flat in Del Boy's Peckham, and that paying 40% tax, in Osborne's world, is only for the suckers subject to PAYE, with the truly wealthy able to employ lawyers and accountants to keep their taxes down to fraction of that figure.

AIBU to say that we have the most exploitative society in generations, and that it's only going to get worse?

OP posts:
CelticPromise · 18/03/2014 20:27

Agree with TheCatFromJapan.

Depressing.

notagreathostess · 18/03/2014 20:44

Like someone else upthread I think compulsory voting could be a force for change. The problem we have at the moment are that all the parties are courting the votes of an unrepresentative portion of society. This (imo) leads to a converging of policies.

The fact that Labour have drifted to the right is reflective of the political views of the groups that are most likely to turn out and vote. The result of this drift is even more disillusionment of those who remain to the left, some of whom will no longer vote at all. Resulting in a smaller and smaller pool of voters who end up calling the shots and further influencing policies.

Currently the better off are more likely to vote so it seems inevitable to me that they will become increasingly so. I also think that Labour will not move to a more left wing agenda unless they think people will actually vote for it. The vilification of the poor and disadvantaged by political parties occurs precisely because they don't fear losing the votes of those who (statistically) don't vote anyway.

TBH I think democracy is failing at the moment as the main parties are all fighting for the votes of a fairly narrow portion of society. Until EVERYONE votes these are the only people who will matter politically.

happyon · 18/03/2014 20:50

Compulsory voting has not produced a more politically bothered, reflective or involved population in Australia.

notagreathostess · 18/03/2014 20:58

Is there an option for "none of the above"? I would support this certainly. Failing that I really don't know the answer but as above I really feel that there is an unstoppable narrowing of policy differences which I cannot see changing without more people voting as until they do so they are invisible to the parties.

Expecting labour to stop trying to compete for traditional tory voters would seem like political suicide for them at the moment but inevitably loses more of the left who have no one else to turn to really.

notagreathostess · 18/03/2014 21:07

One thing I did wonder about (although I'm sure there are a million reasons it's not a good idea!) was instead of making it compulsory, incentivising voting. You could "pay" everyone £5 for voting (or spoiling the ballot). This would, presumably, disproportionately impact upon the poorer in society who are currently less likely to vote, and may even things out a bit. For most people I would guess it would be close to cost neutral (pay for it's implementation in taxes and then recoup when you vote).

2013go · 18/03/2014 21:47

Yanbu and what an enjoyable thread to read. It's a dreadful time in many ways.

JadedAngel · 18/03/2014 22:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

missymarmite · 18/03/2014 22:19

Yadnb! This country is sliding into the great divide. I hate what is happening!

traininthedistance · 18/03/2014 22:20

gretagrape if your dad laughed at the thought that his wages had doubled, he clearly either doesn't understand (or isn't properly remembering) the effects of inflation. That 10k mortgage would have been whittled down very quickly relative to wage rises. Yes, wage push inflation was a reaction to general price inflation - but what made things very easy for the boomers was that inflation made their main housing debts shrink quickly at the same time. Yes, there is lots of data to show that houses have never been this expensive relative to wages ever in modern history - that's why we had the (still ongoing) financial crisis....

And it is quite fair to say that few jobs involved the same kind if working hours as they do now. When I was a child, my mum didn't work, and my dad, in a professional job, got to work every day for 9 and left exactly at 6 - he came through the door every day at 6:20. There was no evening or weekend work taken home for the most part, no email etc. My job, very similar to his, is a regular 60-70 hr working week and I am expected to be available on email 24/7 and to respond to email immediately during evenings and weekends. I work long hours to get through all the paperwork and admin that I only have time for at home.

I'm more than fifteen years older than my parents were when they bought their first home (aged 22); starter house prices where I live are over 300k. I earn a decent salary (I have four Oxbridge degrees and work in a "high skill" job), but DH and I haven't a hope of affording even a tiny Victorian labourer's 2-bed cottage (and wow, by the way, Aga, I thought that the prices around my way of 5-600k for cottages like that were fantastical, but who can afford that Wimbledon place?!? That really is crazy).

My grandparents and their friends were not skilled or educated people, and they could afford a small semi or terrace on one or one and a half wage for normal jobs (small-time shopkeeper, ship steward, doctor's receptionist, telephone switchboard operator, secretary, self-employed plasterer, shop or bank clerk).

My parents and all their friends benefited from the grammar school and university route, but all at ordinary red-brick universities, doing professional, middle class but not massively qualified or out of the ordinary jobs, and they all managed to buy decent semis on one wage (teachers, surveyors, NHS technicians, social workers, engineers, shop managers).

If it was that hard for previous generations as it is now, how come the majority of them were able to buy houses and raise families quite easily? Especially the boomers. Why am I five times as well qualified and educated as my grandfather, with first-class degrees and a decent salary compared to the national average, in my mid-thirties, having never not worked and worked a 60-70hr working week constantly for the last ten years, no holidays or lavish lifestyle, and I can't hope of affording the house my grandparents bought in their mid-twenties on the wages of a part-time doctor's receptionist and a barman, never mind the house my parents bought in their early twenties on my dad's postgraduate student stipend?

Aga great thread, and catfromjapan fab posts. Yes, it's great just to know that you're not alone and that most young people aren't living in this crazy boom-time Kirstie Alsopp pretend-world where it's normal to spend three quarters of a million pounds on a house!

I will have to sleep now as last time there was a thread like this I discovered that you can provide tables and tables of actual inflation-adjusted statistical evidence from the ONS that the boomers are massively more well off than young people today, and spend huge amounts more on leisure, foreign travel, cars, consumer goods etc. than any other age group but (a) posters still refused to accept it, claiming that "you can show anything you like with statistics"; and (b) still stuck doggedly to the notion that young people could afford today's house prices if they only didn't spend so much money on expensive coffees despite being shown that saving the price of an expensive coffee a day would still take EIGHTY years to save up for a DEPOSIT in the SE, never mind the rest of the house

Meglet · 18/03/2014 22:27

YANBU.

Scarletohello · 18/03/2014 22:45

*Aga thanks for such insightful and well thought out posts. You have encapsulated so much of the despair and impotence I feel on a daily basis.

The only thing I want to add is something I saw on a poster for Shelter a few years ago in London , it basically said that if a roast chicken had increase in price as much as housing it would cost...£47.00

That's why so many of us feel alienated from society and probably why so many of those wont even bother voting as they don't see anyone who is addressing people's real, everyday issues which are how just access to education, a living wage and an affordable home.

Pretty shameful for the 6th richest country in the world...

AgaPanthers · 18/03/2014 22:56

I won't be voting. I always used to be a Tory, I believed the 'work hard and get ahead' stuff, but I've seen through that now.

OP posts:
Scarletohello · 18/03/2014 22:58

Wow Aga v surprised you used to be a Tory! What changed...?

ihategeorgeosborne · 18/03/2014 23:13

YANBU. Brilliant post!

ThePowerOfNo · 18/03/2014 23:13

You're wrong about all parties supporting this diabolical economic strategy: the Green Party is made up almost entirely of people who are fighting & campaigning against the assumption that There Is No Alternative to austerity measures. Don't just take my word for it; google Caroline Lucas or Natalie Bennett.

ThePowerOfNo · 18/03/2014 23:16

Or Jenny Jones. She's currently rocking the House Of Lords.

HeeHiles · 18/03/2014 23:40

I'm seriously considering voting Green party - They seem like the only ethical party out there. My local Labour MP is fantastic but I really don't want to see Milly and Balls in charge next year - Maybe a Labour / Green Coalition?

MistressDeeCee · 19/03/2014 00:01

I wish compulsory voting would be introduced. All those women who struggled and went through hell so we could get the vote..and look where we are today. Most of my friends don't vote as they say there's no point. I don't agree, and believe non-voting is partly the reason why we have this coldhearted coalition government.

Ive always voted Labour but I won't be able to bring myself to do so at the next election. Milliband should be utterly ashamed of himself. He stands for nothing and will fall for anything, and the Labour MPs hiding behind him, ok so long as they're in their cushy jobs so won't rock the boat, are just as bad. I couldn't stand Tony Blair, actually..but slimy as he is, if the coalition were doing what they're doing now in his time, he'd have been out there, you'd hear his voice and whether you agreed with his policies or not, you would KNOW what they are and Cameron & crew would know they have opposition.

I will have a look at the Green Party info; I think thats where my vote will go.

UrbaneLandlord · 19/03/2014 00:11

Socialism: It's working in Venezuela and it will work just as well here in the UK!

I'd like many of the contributors to this thread, so full of socialist hatred, to consider the fact that the poorest people in the UK today are amongst the RICHEST "poor" people across the world and throughout history.

I'd invite you to spend some time living in rural African communities, like I have done. That might give you an understanding of what poverty REALLY is. And you'll realise that it does not exist in this country.

householdchorewhore · 19/03/2014 00:14

YANBU OP. You are totally right.

I could cry sometimes, and occasionally do.

traininthedistance · 19/03/2014 00:18

Ah, so that's okay then. Hmm Everybody go home now, everything's fine because people in Africa are even poorer! You there, be grateful for your food bank box and your 75 pounds a week, you're lucky you're not dying from bilharzia in an African mud hut. What, you work long hours in poor health ensuring that some corporations can profit from you and you can be vilified by the Daily Mail as a scrounger? Be off with you, you should be grateful to drink water without risking getting cholera!

How useful that your username is so revealing of your character, gaucherentier urbanelandlord

Dinosaursareextinct · 19/03/2014 00:23

Urbane - there are countries out there where there is far less of a difference between rich and poor, and where people seem to be better off and happier overall. Take a look at Scandinavia. There is no necessity for these enormous differences in wealth and lifestyle.

psynl · 19/03/2014 00:24

Whoever posted about the post ww2 boomers reaping the reward of experiencing an unusual historical socialist blip in finance was spot on.

The irony of our current seemingly downward spiral is that the balance of wealth is now simply returning to what it once was.
With rich politicians trying to 'sell' the idea of a promise, a return to those heady days of perceived prosperity and at the same time try to make us see that to return -to those days- we need to tighten our belts and not to worry as they, the wealthy will arrange it for us.

Turkeys don't vote for christmas, but farmers wouldn't care either way.

History for aeons has 'rewarded' the powerful and the wealthy (who simply bought power with wealth). The wealth in this country has been protected for a long time by laws and by hereditary land division.
Whilst we have a queen 'appointed by god', career politicians, and landed aristocracy protected by the queen, not much will change for the masses.

unfortunately we all think we are free, but really are just experiencing a more elegant form of serfdom.

MistressDeeCee · 19/03/2014 00:26

UrbaneLandlord

Some of us ARE African. & were not born in the UK, and didn't always live in the UK either. I know what to consider, thank you.

Just because poverty exists in other parts of the world, that doesn't actually make me happy that there is a 'better poor' here that people should thank their lucky stars for. If somebody doesn't have the money to meet gas or electricity bills for example, or have to come to terms with the fact that they now have to visit a Food Bank...shall I give them a 'be grateful' lecture?

Condescending doesn't cover it.

PatrickStarisabadbellend · 19/03/2014 00:34

My dream is to own my own home but I know it will never happen. The btl landlords and holiday home owners have ravaged where I live. If it's this bad now what's it going to be like for my kids?

My own mil bought holiday lets in Llangollen and she makes a bundle out of them. She said its her pension but its people like her driving the prices up. It's not right at all.

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